[brendodendo]

I'm not here to bash by any means.

RMRafts was not the spoofer. saturnrafts.com got caught with multiple usernames and 1 IP address posting reviews about Saturn boats. He got slammed. He also gave a lame semi plausible excuse.

Blueblue... do you drive a grey Jeep? If so, I stopped and looked at your boat a couple weeks ago. It looks like it is holding air.

My previous analogy was something like:

Avon = BMW 760Li
Saturn = Ford Focus

Both rafts will get you on the river. One is luxury and the other is price point. One will outlive the other. But, you'll have the $$$ to get another (or more gear, more beer, etc)

Bucky the vampire killer, take that chip off your shoulder buddy. We pleabs can probably run much gnarlier $h!t than you. And good for you, being retired. I hope that your happy. Your posts make you look kinda pissed off.

I like the idea of a Saturn in Gore. ANYBody? Bueller...Buelller?

As for Saturnrafts.com guy, I applaud your commitment to the white water community with the donated rafts and time. I think that you have taken this "bashing" a little to much to heart. Let the new designs, warranty and glue stand out before you throw the boats in our face any more. Have you heard of Tata motors. A LARGE India manufacturer of cheap cars (comming to USA in 2012ish) I would not buy one once they are released here, as they are cheap, mass produced and have no background in the USA. Thats what I think of your rafts right now. Give me a few years, and the boat might change my mind.

Now I'm sick of reading the saturnbuzz!!!! Can all you newbies to this site come up with something else to converse about that might actually be cool and new.

 

[NoCo]

the rm raft guys havent been caught posting under alias...not that ive seen...just face it the idaho guy has screwed the crested butte people over giving them all bad names...rm youve always seemed honest on this site and you never asked your custumers to put there .02in i dont need to hear another happy story about catching trout on classII...who cares...fishing is lame...stories about real stuff is ....and please stop bullshitting...if your not there then you are not running it...when i spend half my day hanging at the takeout for the numbers and never see one of your rafts then you probably were not there...so fish on buckkiller:shock:

 

[tomrefried]

Tieton season starts in a couple weeks, If bucky does any whitewater boating he'll be there since it's only 30 minutes from Yakama. Maybe I'll get a chance to see how his boat is holding up.

 

[carmine34]

Avon/BMW not really

I get your point about the Avon being like a finely crafted auto but the BMW may be a bad choice because you really over pay for a BMW and then you have to overpay to have them fixed on a regular basis which is not the case when it comes to Avons. You can beat the hell out of them commercially day after day and rarely have any problems. An Avon is probably more like an old school Toyota Land Cruiser. Remember overpaying doesn't guarantee quality and durability.

Keep them on the water whatever brand you use!

I'm not here to bash by any means.

RMRafts was not the spoofer. saturnrafts.com got caught with multiple usernames and 1 IP address posting reviews about Saturn boats. He got slammed. He also gave a lame semi plausible excuse.

Blueblue... do you drive a grey Jeep? If so, I stopped and looked at your boat a couple weeks ago. It looks like it is holding air.

My previous analogy was something like:

Avon = BMW 760Li
Saturn = Ford Focus

Both rafts will get you on the river. One is luxury and the other is price point. One will outlive the other. But, you'll have the $$$ to get another (or more gear, more beer, etc)

Bucky the vampire killer, take that chip off your shoulder buddy. We pleabs can probably run much gnarlier $h!t than you. And good for you, being retired. I hope that your happy. Your posts make you look kinda pissed off.

I like the idea of a Saturn in Gore. ANYBody? Bueller...Buelller?

As for Saturnrafts.com guy, I applaud your commitment to the white water community with the donated rafts and time. I think that you have taken this "bashing" a little to much to heart. Let the new designs, warranty and glue stand out before you throw the boats in our face any more. Have you heard of Tata motors. A LARGE India manufacturer of cheap cars (comming to USA in 2012ish) I would not buy one once they are released here, as they are cheap, mass produced and have no background in the USA. Thats what I think of your rafts right now. Give me a few years, and the boat might change my mind.

Now I'm sick of reading the saturnbuzz!!!! Can all you newbies to this site come up with something else to converse about that might actually be cool and new.

 

[Canada]

Saturn Ban / Rafting Sucks Ban

The world would be a better place if these two threads never existed.

 

[carmine34]

Oar Frames

OK getting away from the Saturn talk. I want to make some oar frames. Has anyone ever made one out of 2" PVC Sch 40? Is this a bad idea? Can they hold up in class V whitewater? I can just go with chain link fence rail but I would prefer to weld the corners instead of overpaying for corner connectors but the option to take the frame apart and change it around seems attractive. Is it worth it? Does anyone know where I can get cheap durable corner connectors/fittings?

Thanks,
Carmage

The world would be a better place if these two threads never existed.

 

[Riparian]

Check out the "Games with Frames" thread and stay away from PVC. That will only lead to disaster.

 

[muttster]

I found cheap connectors on ebay to go with the 1 1/4" fence posts.,
eBay Store: Search results for The Fence Source.
They even through in shipping for free when I called them. Cheap, and I don't feel bad cutting up the pipe to try out new arrangements. Once I get it dialed in I plan on getting an aluminum frame made.

OK getting away from the Saturn talk. I want to make some oar frames. Has anyone ever made one out of 2" PVC Sch 40? Is this a bad idea? Can they hold up in class V whitewater? I can just go with chain link fence rail but I would prefer to weld the corners instead of overpaying for corner connectors but the option to take the frame apart and change it around seems attractive. Is it worth it? Does anyone know where I can get cheap durable corner connectors/fittings?

Thanks,
Carmage

 

[montanamusher]

Most of you folks are a bunch of pattsies. You sound like a bunch of little girls talking about designer clothes for the prom. Why don't you pack your dang BMW's and Volvo's up and move back to Vermont- you Yuppie carpetbaggers! Who cares what kind of boat you have...it ain't about the boat- it's about being on the river.

And who cares if a Saturn will hold up on Gore. First, off any boat could potentially get f'ed up there. Second off, the Saturn folks never intended for their rafts to be used on that level of whitewater, and they don't advertize the boats for that use.

And, lastly.... I am sure there are people out there that could run a Saturn down Gore with very little problem anyways. You don't need a $5,000 boat to paddle hard whitewater. I have seen little native kids in South America run Class V in intertubes using hand carved paddles! I have seen a guy paddle Class V using a pair of Chaco's as hand paddles because he'd broken his paddle. I've seen a guy run Class V with two raft paddles ducked taped together to create a kayak paddle, I've seen a guy run Class IV in a giant Igloo ice chest & using a canoe paddle, I've seen a guy duct tape a dog bowl to his head for a helmet and paddle class IV+, and lastly...I've seen a fellow paddle Class V blindfolded! (his visor washed down over his eyes) So, again my point is, it ain't the boat you chotes...its the paddler. Get a clue you brand worshipping wankers!!

 

[lhowemt]

Most of you folks are a bunch of pattsies. You sound like a bunch of little girls talking about designer clothes for the prom. Why don't you pack your dang BMW's and Volvo's up and move back to Vermont- you Yuppie carpetbaggers! Who cares what kind of boat you have...it ain't about the boat- it's about being on the river.

And who cares if a Saturn will hold up on Gore. First, off any boat could potentially get f'ed up there. Second off, the Saturn folks never intended for their rafts to be used on that level of whitewater, and they don't advertize the boats for that use.

And, lastly.... I am sure there are people out there that could run a Saturn down Gore with very little problem anyways. You don't need a $5,000 boat to paddle hard whitewater. I have seen little native kids in South America run Class V in intertubes using hand carved paddles! I have seen a guy paddle Class V using a pair of Chaco's as hand paddles because he'd broken his paddle. I've seen a guy run Class V with two raft paddles ducked taped together to create a kayak paddle, I've seen a guy run Class IV in a giant Igloo ice chest & using a canoe paddle, I've seen a guy duct tape a dog bowl to his head for a helmet and paddle class IV+, and lastly...I've seen a fellow paddle Class V blindfolded! (his visor washed down over his eyes) So, again my point is, it ain't the boat you chotes...its the paddler. Get a clue you brand worshipping wankers!!

Excellent, you say it isn't about the boat, but then if the boat is the wrong brand (read quality), you say those people suck. Perhaps you don't understand what a double standard is, but that's it.

 

[Riparian]

Saturn <yawn> Rafts. Would it be reasonable to say that these boats are:
1) Suitable for entry-level folks on a tight budget.
2) Suitable for infrequent users who won't be putting their rafts to the test.
3) Suitable for users who don't have qualms about buying foreign-made boats over domestically made boats.
4) Unsuitable for frequent users with expectations of durability and long life.

 

[swiftwater15]

Most of you folks are a bunch of pattsies. You sound like a bunch of little girls talking about designer clothes for the prom. Why don't you pack your dang BMW's and Volvo's up and move back to Vermont- you Yuppie carpetbaggers! Who cares what kind of boat you have...it ain't about the boat- it's about being on the river.

And who cares if a Saturn will hold up on Gore. First, off any boat could potentially get f'ed up there. Second off, the Saturn folks never intended for their rafts to be used on that level of whitewater, and they don't advertize the boats for that use.

And, lastly.... I am sure there are people out there that could run a Saturn down Gore with very little problem anyways. You don't need a $5,000 boat to paddle hard whitewater. I have seen little native kids in South America run Class V in intertubes using hand carved paddles! I have seen a guy paddle Class V using a pair of Chaco's as hand paddles because he'd broken his paddle. I've seen a guy run Class V with two raft paddles ducked taped together to create a kayak paddle, I've seen a guy run Class IV in a giant Igloo ice chest & using a canoe paddle, I've seen a guy duct tape a dog bowl to his head for a helmet and paddle class IV+, and lastly...I've seen a fellow paddle Class V blindfolded! (his visor washed down over his eyes) So, again my point is, it ain't the boat you chotes...its the paddler. Get a clue you brand worshipping wankers!!

The best post inthis thread, and one of the best I've seen in a long time.

 

[nmalozzi]

I have a 15' Saturn raft that I bought from Joe at RMRafts a couple months ago. It was a used raft (used once on the Colorado), and he gave me a great deal on it. I have had nothing but good things to say about the raft. The included paddles, pump and carry bag are total crap, but luckily the raft is very nice. This is my first raft, so take that with a grain of salt. We have taken it down Browns twice, Pinnacle to Parkdale and Royal Gorge. We had a couple experienced guides take the lead on the harder sections, and they had nothing but good things to say about the boat.

I flipped it over last week after hitting pretty much every rock on Browns, and was amazed to see only a couple of superficial scratches. This thing is pretty bomber.

Joe is a good guy, and drove down to the Springs to make the deal. Sat outside in the rain and taught me a lot about the boat. If I can get 5 years out of it, I am a happy guy.

Just in case everyone is wondering why all of a sudden there are a bunch of emails supporting the guy in Idaho, here is an email I just got. The funny thing is, that I didn't even buy a boat from him.

Saturn Rafts - Customer Testimonials‏
From: info@saturnrafts.com
Sent: Thu 8/06/09 8:52 AM
To: info@saturnrafts.com
Hi Guys,

We don't often request anything from our customers except pictures of their favorite trips but we could use a little help if you have time. There is a website callled www.mountainbuzz.com where we continue to get slammed about our rafts from people saying they won't hold up to extended use, etc.... It's all BS just because of our price point and no one wants to believe you can get a quality raft for the price we offer.

If you have been satisfied with your raft, better yet - if you think your Saturn Rafts kicks ASS (most of our customers do), can you please take 5 minutes of your time to go to this website and give a sentence of input?

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f15/saturn-rafts-vs-other-glued-pvc-boats-26564.html

You have to register but it only takes seconds and it is a good source of information for anything you're looking for raft related.

You can click on the link above or just do a search for "saturn" and you'll find the top post. We're finally getting a bunch of people to support us on the site but they are being discredited as "fake" customers.

If you could mention that you bought it from me (Cody) or Saturn Rafts - Wholesale Supplier that would be awesome.

Cody Janson
Saturn Rafts
Saturn Rafts - Wholesale Supplier
(208)559-5449
info@saturnrafts.com

Wow, I tried to read through this entire thread as I'm considering a Saturn, but I just can't waste that much time. So I apologize if what I am about to post is not relevant:

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I guided BullSCit's Saturn down the Royal Gorge a few weeks back (thanks again man, it was a blast... and also a thank you for the "experienced guide" compliment). We ran it earlier in the day in Kayaks in order to figure out the lines and scout a bit, as none of us had run the Gorge before. It was at 800cfs I believe, so there was water, but it was a touch boney at spots. I watched as many commercial trips pass through the rapids as I could, and tried to follow what looked as though the meatier lines they were taking the customers down. The Saturn was probably the biggest raft I've guided in by about 2ft or so. So I was anticipating it not being quite as maneuverable as I'm used to. I also hadn't been in the drive seat of a raft for about 2 seasons. So I was a bit rusty, in a bigger boat then use to, with more people then used to, and on a stretch I had only been down in a kayak earlier that day.

That all being said, the odds were not in my favor, but I must say the Saturn handled WAY better then I anticipated. It tracked fairly well, maneuvered well (as well as I could ask one to anyway given that I wasn't used to it), and I managed to slam it into a few metallic objects that certainly had me a bit nervous. At the end of the day, I gave it a quick once over and it looked fine to me. A few superficial marks here and there, but it sounds like from the quoted post that those were already there.

I obviously can't speak for it's longevity as it was a pretty damn new boat, but it seemed legit to me. I've paddled Hyside, Aire, NRS, Achilles, and probably others. They def seemed to be even more bomber just looking at it/etc. However, I think for the price if your a weekend warrior like myself it is a great way to go. I'm seriously thinking about picking one up. That way I can spend the next few years picking up all the add ons and accessories. Then when it finally goes, I can swallow buying a pricier raft since I've already got all the other stuff anyway.

Just my 2cents

 

[g.soutiere]

Then when it finally goes, I can swallow buying a pricier raft since I've already got all the other stuff anyway.

Just my 2cents

that what I was thinking when I got mine. glad to hear it handled well in the goarge

 

[tyaker]

Wow. After a freakin' marathon post read, I've concluded 8 things:

1. Saturn boats are loved.
2. Saturn boats are hated.
3. Newbie 'buzzers love Saturn boats.
4. Veteran 'buzzers hate newbie posters who love Saturn boats.
5. Sneaky boat sellers suck.
6. Welders and gluers do the same thing.
7. I'm bored now.
8. See you on the Upper C. I'm the guy in the 16' glued Vanguard.

F%ck off and shut up.

 

[shappattack]

not a CM Troll?

Don't know that a CM Troll is? Sorry for calling you a Nazi. Right on to your post!:

Now that's a good discussion point. While it is somewhat similar, I think there's one major difference. At the time in the past you are talking about, US products were JUNK. Big old clunkers that cost a lot and you didn't get anything, not even reliability. The US made rafts are very high quality, with a high level of customer service, and so you still get what you pay for.

I think this is one place I agree with Shapp (god forbid!), about buying locally and trading our dollars with our neighbors and friends. If we don't, even though the cheap imports may improve, the high quality local products will decline in quality in order to compete if no one will buy them. I think, especially boaters, don't make life decisions solely on $, if we did we wouldn't be blowing all this money and time and gas and such on spending time on the river. If you can get a US boat, great! If not, I hope you can buy some things local/US and keep your money circulating through fellow boaters. We aren't going to keep our economy going with the Wal-Mart mentality. When the economy truly tanks, how are we going to afford all that cheap plastic crap from China? Shoes, clothes, etc? I think the career of the future is a cobbler, or seamstress.

Who's YOUR farmer?

 

[teton boater]

Bashers hate poor people

All you bashers apparently want anybody that can't afford a $5k set up to miss out on the joys of the river. Let me guess you prefer mercedes over toyota? I can't speak for Baltik or Star, but Saturn has made many improvements since 2008 and they seem to be listening to customer/dealer feedback. When I started repping Zeal Optics people said the same thing, but now REI probably carries them. Lets not discourage people that normally would veer away from our spendy sport. I just became a dealer for Saturn because I felt their quality standards are up to par with recent mods. This is Not and ad and I have nothing to do with the Idaho Guy that people seem to dislike. These are great boats for families and fisherman in our area(jackson hole). Plus I believe in Karma and take care of my customers. Peace boaters.

 

[teton boater]

tell it

I agree with swiftwater. I hear vermont is still looking for trustfunders. Light one up and mellow out you stupid boat snobs. Everybody deserves to enjoy the river. Just be safe.

 

[brendodendo]

Teton,

I'm not a boat snob. Read some of my posts in the Saturn thread(s). And I don't think that most of the people here that are questioning the boats are necessarily against them. They are against things made overseas, that undercut more local options. They also question the durability of new to market boats. Especially ones that were not designed to well a few years ago.

As for calling people on the buzz stupid... that's just a dumb statement. Especially since you now seem to be in the raft selling business. I am no snob, buy what get you on the river, but you won't convince me that I should get one.

 

[allysfishboy]

Wow! As long as these boats last five years, they are prolly worth the money. I just got an ancient 10.5' Rikken bucket boat cheap and have beat the hell out of it. We run the surge on the middle ocoee. My paddlers suck and we end up hitting half the damn rocks but it holds up. ANCIENT boat. A new any-name-boat should be able to run anything IV and under if this waterlogged sucker can. Boat fills up with every big wave and we bail like hell. Still fun and i can go three times as much as i could paying a guide, which we still do twice a month. It's all about the water. Get on it and in it.
Trying to do the Russell Fork and Gauley Marathon (not in my little pos). Expensive!!! Will post if we survive it. Me and the honey are going to run this Rikken to death then get a Saturn next spring and try to kill it. My little group takes the worst lines we can anywhere we go. No better way to die.