[teton boater]

Well I certainly hope brendodendo has all american cars, appliances and electronics. Quick economy lesson boaters. Free Market is what keeps quality up across the board and prices in check. Why should a boat be any different from your TV or DVD player? I love America and I do believe in the value of competition. I guess brendodo was offended with "boat snobs". I sell boats for fun and the satisfaction of getting people on the river with what I believe is now a quality product. I work two other jobs that I rely on for income, so I have no need to try to talk somebody into a $1,300 boat when they can easily afford a undisputably better boat for $3K+. It's kind of like skis and snowboards. Everybody likes to voice their opinion, but in the end they all get ya down the mtn. Shout out to all the working peeps out there that make sacrifices in life to reap the soulful rewards of the wilderness!

Just like my vehicle. Frankly I don't care what the guy in the new corvette thinks of me.

Teton,

I'm not a boat snob. Read some of my posts in the Saturn thread(s). And I don't think that most of the people here that are questioning the boats are necessarily against them. They are against things made overseas, that undercut more local options. They also question the durability of new to market boats. Especially ones that were not designed to well a few years ago.

As for calling people on the buzz stupid... that's just a dumb statement. Especially since you now seem to be in the raft selling business. I am no snob, buy what get you on the river, but you won't convince me that I should get one.

 

[NoCo]

this thread has been great...people piss each other off and slander each other anonamously...wow...i know im guilty of it too...buckkiller didnt like me...sorry buckkiller nothing personal, it was just kinda fun getting a rise out of you...maybe its time to let this thread die...have a good winter guys...ski fast take chances dont be a chicken

 

[mr. compassionate]

Saturn <yawn> Rafts. Would it be reasonable to say that these boats are:
1) Suitable for entry-level folks on a tight budget.
2) Suitable for infrequent users who won't be putting their rafts to the test.
3) Suitable for users who don't have qualms about buying foreign-made boats over domestically made boats.
4) Unsuitable for frequent users with expectations of durability and long life.

Amen brotha! See alot of Saturns on afternoon floats on upper c. If this gets people out on the river I'm all for it...not sure if i'd be floating gore in one though.

 

[troutslayer]

Floating lower blue Thursday on 14' saturn

Hey everyone I am getting one of the 14' saturns on wednesday to see what there all about. If anyone wants to go fishing on thursday please shoot me a message. I will be running the 14' saturn with the nrs fishing frame. I have done this stretch about 15 times and you can't beat the fishing.

Happy boating and fishing!

Matt:-D

 

[DogTank]

How was the Saturn

Troutslayer,

What did you think of the Saturn? I just bought one myself and hope to get it on Alpine this weekend.

 

[g.soutiere]

Troutslayer,

What did you think of the Saturn? I just bought one myself and hope to get it on Alpine this weekend.

I've had mine for a season now, I am getting better at guiding but still hit things. I am now getting into class III rapids, started with shosho, and have takin my boat over a few pour-overs and so far it only has surface scratches.
Its very manuverable, fun ,and cheep. I belive it was a good purchase, I have a few weeks of boating left before I put the short bus up for the winter, I will put another post then.
gerry:mrgreen:

 

[goldsmje]

I'm on the fence between a Vanguard or a Saturn. Does anyone know how they compare to each other?? I suspect someone looking at a Saturn may have also already compared the two. I'd like to know what you found out. Thanks.

 

[Wirednoodle]

I was cruising through craigslist and saw that maxxon has a SB now (at least I think that is what the ad was implying). Looks like a saturn.

maxxon SB

 

[shappattack]

More like the other way around. Maxxon has been making SB rafts since the 1990s, we have one about 8 years old, it works fine but is starting to have seam glue issues.

 

[troutslayer]

Just wanted to give a little input on the Saturn raft. Yes i am a actual owner of a Saturn. Yes they are good boats for the money you spend on them!!!! I have rowed my 14' down brown's and the royal gorge. I have also done many paddle boat trips on it. I probably had 30+ days on my Saturn this summer and still don't have a patch. The floor bails well granted its not as fast as other boats it gets the job done! No bucket needed the valves all hold air well and the relieve valves work. The only draw back on the boat i have is the hard handles for paddle trips. Has anyone tried to cut them off? I guess RM rafts sells a boat with the soft handles on it. It is a very light boat and i recomended it to anyone. The only thing i can't say is how many more seasons of 30+ days on the river i can run on it everything is perfect after one! Happy boating!

 

[Captain Chris]

The best way to cut the handles of is useing a hack saw, then use a dremel tool to sand down the sharp plastic edges. leave the one on the front and back because the boats are so light it only take 2 people to carry it.
That is how I saw it done but I use mine as an oar rig so I don't need to do it.

 

[caverdan]

I'm on the fence between a Vanguard or a Saturn. Does anyone know how they compare to each other?? I suspect someone looking at a Saturn may have also already compared the two. I'd like to know what you found out. Thanks.

Vanguard uses a heavier fabric than Saturn.......thus the Vanguard is heavier duty and more puncture resistant. :mrgreen:

 

[Andy H.]

Vanguard also has a really thick double or triple wrap on the bottom of the boat that's like elephant hide, and chafer pads all the way around the top of the tubes. Vanguard's a more durable boat and is designed specifically for whitewater use.

-AH

 

[caverdan]

Vanguard also has a really thick double or triple wrap on the bottom of the boat that's like elephant hide, and chafer pads all the way around the top of the tubes. Vanguard's a more durable boat and is designed specifically for whitewater use.

-AH

Andy is correct and if you go to the Vanguard website you can see illustrations on how they construct their floors and rafts. They do use the glued seam method. The fabric used for Saturn's is 1100 Dtex PVC. Vanguard uses 4000 Dtex PVC for the floors and 3600 Dtex for the tubes. Vanguard also uses new style Leafield valves where the Saturn's use an old style valve......I forget the name if them. Those are two of the main differences. Cost is also a biggie......Vanguards are around $2000.00 more for a 14' raft. The tubes are 21" diameter on a 14' Vanguard where the 14' Saturn tubes are 19.6".

 

[rgesner]

" The shipping effects qually as well, just expose your boat to a months worth of salt water air!"

You've gotta be kidding!!!??? You think that they rafts are sitting around on the deck of the freighter exposed to the sea????

Or that PVC is affected by salt???

LOL

Sorry but the otters and tributaries are made in the same factories. There are two and both factories are managed by the same people. However, NRS and Aire sets different standards for patterns, material, and glue. The saturn, baltic, ect have thier standars as well. Each meeting a different price/market. Now the NRS expidition and Aire branded boats are a different story. And the humidity totally effects the bonding of glue. Ever been to China? No air conditioning.. The shipping effects qually as well, just expose your boat to a months worth of salt water air! Now some companies like NRS and Aire try thier best to offset these problems. But they are built in the same factories.

 

[rising.sun]

No Glue in AIRE PVC Boats

I would like to point out (it has been awhile since this has been mentioned), that NONE of the AIRE boats have any glue in them. This includes the American-made boats and Tributary line that is made in China. I don't believe there are any other Chinese-made PVC boats that are weld/stitch only. The Tributary line is an exceptional deal if you consider the life of the boat.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[rgesner]

To the Saturn bashers:

If Saturns are so bad, why are there not lots of ads for used Saturns posted by all the poor suckers who bought them?

 

[rgesner]

There is a lot of misunderstanding here about “glued” PVC. In fact, “glued” PVC is actually solvent-welded, whereas “welded” PVC is heat-welded, and both methods result in a similar fusing of the membrane. That is probably why Saturn does not use the term “glued” and uses the more accurate term “bonded.” Also, “welded” PVC may be more susceptible to damage from folding than “glued” PVC. Furthermore, the four layer bonding construction used by Saturn actually provides more overlay and reinforcement of the seam than the simple overlap of welded construction of welding. This is probably why Aire does not depend on their welded seams to provide an air tight tube and chooses to add an internal air bladder.

For the record, I have an Aire Force XL kayak with welded construction and am considering purchasing a four layer bonded-seam Saturn raft.

The following is from the Vanguard web site:

There are currently two major methods constructing an inflatable boat: welded and glued seams. Glued seams on a PVC boat are fundamentally different than glued seams on a rubber (Hypalon/Neoprene) boat.

Glued (PVC)
Strength/Bond type: Strong -- Chemical/Molecular bond
Cost: Affordable -- Little to no fabric preparation is necessary at the factory.
Durability: Good -- Problems with old PVC boats falling apart have been resolved for over 10 years.

Welded (PVC/Polyurethane)
Strength/Bond type: Strong -- Molecular bond
Cost: Affordable -- Requires well trained workers.
Durability: If temperature, feed rate, and other factors are ideal: Good. -- Welding combined with folding a boat can cause microscopic fracturing of the coating resulting in the boat loosing air over time. Welded seams are not advisable with polyester base fabrics.

 

[Jensjustduckie]

Here we go again...

 

[Riparian]

Here we go again...

Not one, not two, but three Saturn threads are currently active. It's becoming "Night of the Undead Plastic Raft" around here.