[caverdan]

Somethings I was taught by an old river rat.

Never leave a gear boat without your bow line in hand.

All my boats have a 12'-15' bow line on them for this purpose. I use an old throw bag for tying the boat to shore. This trick has saved me many times.

No matter how you strap your cooler in....... always dedicate one strap to go around the cooler and lid. Two depending on Beer load. :smile: This is more for paddle boats than gear boats.

 

[Conundrum]

Here's a few. Talk the pros and cons out if you think there's something I'm missing.

-Always hook your pfd to where you're sleeping. If a boat gets loose from camp, you still have a pfd to ride with someone else.

-Check your patch glue at the start of every season.

-No non-locking carabiners on the boat. I know a lot of people have them. Really dicey in a situation where ropes come out.

-No how to sit on a bank and talk when a boat is pinned. It's not going anywhere until you make it go somewhere so walk through the plan.

-Drink a nalgene of water before you crack your first beer every day.

-Be really nice to shuttle drivers.

-Treat FS rangers with respect and listen even if you've heard their talk a million times.

-Do your best to return found gear.

-Put your name and number on stuff so it's easy to get it back.

-I'd rather have too much food and booze than not enough.

-Keep a backpacker water filter on one or two of the boats.

-A wag bag or two in the day time poop kit is always nice.

-A long piece of pvc is a good way to keep your rod tip intact.

-Know where the water flow will be in the morning or plan ahead when you don't when you tie your boat up.

-If you're taking people that are new to trips and don't understand river hygiene, put a hand wash on the way to the groover and then a mandatory one that people have to use before entering the kitchen.

-If you have a group that is bad about dishes, everyone has to bring their own plate and utensils.

-Everybody gets a hammered day but try not to have more than one on a trip.

-Take part in organizations that protect rivers and public lands.

-Don't leave your pipe out when you're not using it. Who knows when a ranger will swing by.

-A pee bucket by the tent goes a long way with my lady.

-Don't pick your tent site or set up personal gear until the boats are unloaded.

-After a long day on the river, offer the kitchen crew first pick for their camping spot.

-Be flexible on meal days so if you don't get the camps you want, you're not cooking really late.

-Help the old guys. Their campfire stories are worth it if they are not too tired and can stay up later. Plus, we'll all hopefully be the old guys someday.

-Learn the phrase "Anything I can help with" and use it when you're done with your chores.

-You're going to flip and get stuck. Laugh about it. Especially when the old guy in the boat floating by is yelling "you just got a parking ticket". He stopped counting his MFS trips at 150. He gets to yell that.

There's plenty more but I should go to work.

 

[codycleve]

We ended up getting into a camp late "fighting wind on salmon lake" and where trying to do dishes with headlamps... well the bugs swarmed to the headlamps so bad you couldnt stand it... we took a 10' oar and attached a streamlight lantern to the handle and jammed the oar blade into the sand and sandwiched it between two coolers... this made an awesome street lamp and kept the bugs up and away from everyone... here are some pictures of the lantern.. you want the cap off.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app

 

[codycleve]

Lantern

Sent from my SM-G920V using Mountain Buzz mobile app

 

[Conundrum]

Decided to be lazy today.

-Even if you don't have an NRS frame, keep a couple u-blots and odds and ends in your repair kit.

-Menus taped in the lid of the kitchen box are nice.

-Don't be scared to haul group gear.

-Learn to row with open locks and oar rights. Never know when you'll be on a boat not set up for you.

-Keep some super glue in your captains box for finger cracks. Fix your finger cracks before you cut lime for your drinks.

-If there's going to be shrooms on the trip, remember the phrase "relax, you just took drugs".

-Cook before taking the drugs.

-Get your headlamp before it gets dark.

-Bring an extra pleeno for bocce.

-Throw a guide on another trip a beer once in awhile. You're probably going to hit the take out sometime that around when they're getting there.

-Learn the following knots-water, eight, prussik, butterfly, and equalizing loops for webbing. Setup a practice z-drag occasionally in camp.

-Watch your back cast.

-A extra pair of croakies and cheap glasses are great to loan someone who just lost theirs.

-Gather firewood before camp. Especially later in the season.

-Jumping the fire sounds cool but it really isn't.

-Put the groover downwind.

-Remember waterproof sunscreen on the tops of your feet.

-If your groups does group beer, make sure you're the one packing the coolers if you're particular about what you're drinking.

-44 North and that new squeeze flavoring plus water saves a lot of space for cocktail mixers in the dry box.

-If it's windy, stake your tent corners as you're setting up. And help your buddy swim and retrieve who didn't. His wife can yell really loud.

-Confirm everything on the gear list before Boundary. Stanley is a drive and propane is expensive there.

 

[Kodiak.]

-Drink a nalgene of water before you crack your first beer every day.

Add a Nunn tablet to said nalgene to replenish electrolytes. Makes a world of difference after numerous days of drinking back-to-back.

 

[Kodiak.]

-A extra pair of croakies and cheap glasses are great to loan someone who just lost theirs.

We keep a stash of cheap gas station glasses in a captains box -- the more ridiculous the glasses the better!!

 

[JustinJam]

Big groups and group beer. We always do a rule of everyone brings a 30 rack of cheap beer that we all throw into the mix for the drag bag. Good beer gets packed by the cooler captain.

 

[Beaver Whisperer]

This is a good start. Wet wipes clogging up SCAT machines is news to me. Good to know. Can they be used in a groover setup that will be cleaned out at a RV dump station or do they have the same negative impact?

When you empty the groover with water pressure, there is a good chance the wet wipes will clog the discharge hose and blow it off. First hand knowledge at Split Mountain clean out, fortunately everything was contained in the fenced in area so it was easily cleaned up. I would never want that to happen again, especially at an RV dump site though some of the RVer's might enjoy the shit show. So NO WET WIPES in the groover.



That is emphasized on every rafting trip during Groover 101.

 

[2tomcat2]

This has been a great topic, have learned a bunch of new and different approaches to river camping, etc. You can teach an old river rat new tricks!

 

[Kodiak.]

Crew Assignments - before each trip participants are assigned a crew (red, blue, green, etc) and then a schedule is outlined for crew assignments for the trip. We generally have three crew assignments (cook, groover, and support) and you spend one day as each assignment (and rotate if necessary based on length of the trip). Crew assignments start each evening at camp. Cook crew is responsible for dinner and the following days breakfast and lunch. They do all cooking and cleaning for their meals but then but only have to setup the kitchen once since they start their "assignment" at dinner time. Groover crew is pretty self explanatory setup and breakdown groover the following morning. Support crew gets the common areas setup (firepit, games, etc) and gather firewood. This is perhaps one of my favorite things for trips since the responsibility is shared by everyone and people can be held accountable if they aren't carrying their weight.

This also spreads the meal planning/purchasing/packing across multiple people. Each crew is responsible for shopping for and packing the ingredients for their food. The members within each crew take care of the costs for thier cook crew only. Makes rounding up dollars for the trip leader much easier as food costs are handled by the crews individually. We have some general guidelines for newbies to be creative and not just bring a couple cans of spagetti-O's. Nothing against them but it can create some friction if one group brings steak for dinner and another brings PB&J's.

Depending on the trip we also have a $10/person "fee" that goes into a pool that is awarded to the best crew (as voted by everyone). In my experience this has made for some really impressive meals on the river and a little friendly competition is always fun!

 

[Andy H.]

Lots of great tips above. Here are a couple more:

On longer trips, have one cook crew team assigned to do dinner and the next day's breakfast and lunch at a camp so they can set up the kitchen how they like it, know where all the food items are for each of the meals, will be doing all their meals there, re-use leftovers immediately, and then get a few days off before they're on again.

On summer desert trips, transfer canned beverages from the drag bag into a bucket, then drain a cooler into the bucket and bring to where everyone's hanging out in the shade. This provides a bucket full of ice cold drinks from a waste item without having to even open a cooler.

On summer desert trips, on arrival at camp, get a bucket brigade going and splash down the campsite and rocks around it. Also splash down your tentsites. By the time camp gets set up, the water will have evaporated and cooled off the camp instead of radiating heat at you all night. I've considered bringing a garden watering can for this...

On cool- or cold-weather trips, each morning fill a thermos full of hot tea (or coffee, or whatever, Vanilla Rooibos is a fave) and some honey and half and half in it just in case someone goes for a swim or gets cold. Or in case someone is cold, period. It won't go to waste.

On those spring and fall trips, when you're all warm and dry suiting up on the beach in the sun remember that you'll be getting soaked and likely floating into the shade pretty soon. And that it's a lot easier to cool off on the river if you get hot than it is to warm up after you get cold.

A drysuit packs down to the size of a canteloupe and only weighs a couple of pounds. It's better to have it along and not need it than to need it and not have it along.

Never be a smart ass to the ranger. Even if they're wrong, they think they're right and that they're doing what they're doing for a good reason.

Remember that most injuries on river trips happen on shore. And that getting to medical help will likely take many hours and entail a grueling and painfully rough ride for the victim. And that doing the evacuation could endanger other people.

If possible, adjust your schedule so you're running riskier rapids in the morning to give yourself a better margin of safety in case something goes wrong.

When you're planning a trip with new people, make sure everyone knows in advance what the expectations are, and shares the vision of what kind of trip it will be.

When you're responding to an emergency make sure you're safe before helping others.

When the kayaker says "let go of the loop" do exactly what they say.

Wear shoes on shore.

Rig to flip, dress to swim.

-AH

 

[DarrylH]

Planning-expectations-organization-execution

I'll apologize for the length - and admit plagiarizing many terrific ideas from AndyH, Kodiak, Caverdan, Conundrum, AltaHolics, MontanaLaz, and Carvedog.

• Communication – planning – flexibility – respect – we’re here to have fun!
• We generally keep a ledger of what everyone spends: permit, camps, wood, camp fuel, water filters, TP, SCAT machine, etc., is then split everything evenly.
• Everyone's share of all non-refundable costs (permit, deposits, etc.) are due up front - if the trip falls through you're not left trying to get money from people for a trip that didn't go.
• Shuttle and gas costs are shared between vehicle passengers.
• Some rivers assess a fee for each individual - these fees need to be paid to Trip Leader prior to online registration.
• What gear will individuals bring – group gear – first aid kits – wrap kits – satellite phone? Use a spreadsheet for listing and sign up.
• Rental Gear that is a group item is a shared trip expense.
• The spreadsheets also let me do pretty accurate budgeting. If price goes up on one thing, then I get something less expensive on another item.
• I started getting a deposit of $150 if you were committed to the trip. If not then your spot might go away.
• I do try to go about $20 to $30 long on the estimate and use that 'slush' fund for gear repair or what not - if it breaks, we fix it or buy a new one – assuming it’s a piece of group gear was broken due to group neglect
• If nothing gets broken then it goes towards dinner the night we get off the river.
• It’s nice to partner a kayak or two with each raft to help in loading and unloading. And, kayakers are usually happy groover haulers!
• People get assigned a dinner and dessert to provide so that no one person shoulders the entire food costs. Occasionally, the group will vote to do all of the meals in the common as well, so one person serving steak & lobster isn’t paying more than the team doing lasagna.
• Breakfast and lunches are up to the individuals to provide for themselves.
• Spread meal planning/purchasing/packaging across serval teams – each takes care of cost for their team – shared with trip leader’s master spreadsheet.
• Having jarred red sauce and pasta three times in one week on 'every one brings one meal' gets old and is symptomatic of other planning misses. Having good food is essential – if people are hungry everyone is going to be grumpy. With spreadsheets online I post a proposed menu that rotates fish, chicken, beef and pork - and also changes up the carbs and veggies. If people want to go off the reservation and come up with something different they have to go through me - more or less. And red sauce makes a mess of the kitchen dish setup anyway.
• Depending on a trip, we have a $10/person ‘food fee’ that goes into a pool, to be awarded to the best team – makes for friendly competition for the ‘river rat ratatouille recognition’
• Very important: Make sure everyone is on the same page with all costs and expectations up front. When you first invite people or assemble your core group to put in for the permit, share your vision of the trip (party scene, chill, hike your buns off, yoga and meditation, kid-friendly, nightly bible study, etc.) and the obligations you expect for participants (costs, meals, etc). If folks balk when they hear they have to put up money a couple of months out, or plan, shop, and bring a certain number of meals, then you know you don't want them on the trip.
• This is when the big questions get covered; does the trip leader expect to get up at 5:30 am and race down the river – are we going to row/paddle into darkness before making camp – how many miles per day – not a time to get shy.
• Expectations, etiquette, responsibilities, kitchen, groover, trash, noise, campsite hogs, loading and rigging sequence, carrying group gear first, hand wash station, firepan, and minutia.
• On hot summer trips, organize a bucket brigade and splash down the campsite, rocks around it, kitchen area, and tent sites – it’ll evaporate and cool everything down – plus knock down the dust. When I was a boy we had a large can fitted with a bail handle and holes punched in the bottom – it was my joy to cover the entire camp.
• Personal gear gets set up AFTER group communal stuff.
• The day’s kitchen crew gets first choice of campsite. Kitchen gear is ‘fire-lined’ to the kitchen area. Cooks set up the kitchen and do their own dishes – they deal with their own mess, and it keeps people in the kitchen down.
• Mandatory hand wash station positioned at kitchen entry point – you don’t get in to cook, socialize, or eat, without using it.
• Carefully discuss your trash plan – will each boat carry one day’s trash or multiple? We never use grocery bags – always carry quality, leak proof bags – usually doubled, compacted and then sealed into heavy-duty compactor bags (Sanitary bags with feminine products and wet wipes go in these also). Those go in a NRS dry bag – no odors to attract critters or bears.
• Transfer canned beverages into a camp bucket – drain cold water from coolers and bring to the shade congregating area.
• Designate potential alternate TL (PATL) who can assume responsibilities and allow the trip to continue in the event the TL is incapacitated before or during the trip.
• Alcohol: The most dangerous variable on many river trips. Folks should be as aware of this as they are about their PFD. It is the #1 leading cause of death and injury on river trips. Inebriation leads to poor coordination, poor body function (congestive heart failure, unbalanced electrolytes, low immunity, poor circulation, etc.) and judgement that can inversely affect the group in a big way. If there will be alcohol on your expedition, talk about what responsible drinking IS before the trip. A lot of Buzzers boast about getting really buzzed – worth buzzing over…
• Groover station expectations: Pee not into groover – pee pot gets dumped in river, rinsed and returned – bags provided for sanitary supplies – those and wet wipes go in trash bag NOT groover – mandatory use of hand sterilizer on exit.
• If an individual group member is NOT healthy going into the trip, that individual will very likely be unhealthy throughout the trip. If you’re not healthy, please stay home. Mental health should also be taken into consideration!
• It’s really important to communicate who has been sick two weeks prior to launch – you don’t want someone ‘sharing’ a gastrointestinal illness – they shouldn’t be handling food or dishes.
• What trip member has the most medical experience? First aid certification?
• Expedition Members. Should be Positive, communicative, group oriented, hardworking, and willing to help. Many hands make light work. When individuals are not helpful, a group can splinter into subsets that fracture the group dynamics and make leadership difficult. This can be particularly troublesome in an emergency.
• Never be a smart ass to the river ranger – even if they’re wrong or having a bad day – they’re doing what they think is right (or someone up the food chain has told them to do) all for good reason – and lousy pay. They get to encounter ill-prepared, sleep deprived, manic, stress-out boaters who’ve either lost or left essential gear somewhere. Oh, did I mention, they think they’re all in charge.
• Who is going to run lead – sweep? What is your river experience? How are emergencies going to be handled?
• Hold an end of day meeting to discuss what went right – plan for the next day – major rapids – hikes – campsite choices – river miles scheduled - dynamics.
• Most river injuries happen on shore. Dull knives, poor footwear choices (wear shoes), most broken bones start with, ‘Hey watch this’! Getting to medical help may involve lengthy, painful extractions that could endanger others.
• It’s encouraged to say, I don’t feel comfortable doing this.
• We have ALWAYS adhered to the; Notify where you’re going, two-by-two rule, are you carrying a first aid kit, when will you be back system.
• We always prepare an Emergency Trip Info Packet that lists everyone – it’s distributed before the trip and a copy is in each vehicle – including one in a zip bag stashed where emergency personal can find it.
• We’ve always avoided the ‘Light the fire, kick the tires, and go’ approach. Send carefully prepared safety instructions prior to trip. Have a detailed, thorough safety discussion before you shove off.
• Preparation precedes and purges pucker.
• Rig to flip – dress to swim.
• (Ideas, suggestions, and quotes liberally pirated from MountainBuzz.)
Posted by mattywp: “You're not always going to be the trip leader...unless you are the luckiest SOB in the world.”

There is no greater thrill
Than the chance for a spill
In a rapid that's angry and white,
But the one that you feel
when the leveling keel
Proclaims that your boat's still upright.

Credited to Frederick Dellenbaugh (1853–1935)

I don't think the Emergency Contact-Trip Info Packet spreadsheet loaded, PM me and I'll send it. Darryl

 

[Andy H.]

Posted by mattywp: “You're not always going to be the trip leader...unless you are the luckiest SOB in the world.”

I disagree with this. There are plenty of times it's really nice to just show up with the meals and gear I've promised to bring, get on the water, and let someone else run the show...

Great thread!

-AH

 

[Whitewater Worthy Equip]

You can adapt your trip around weather, flow and rapids with good people and attitudes but a single person can ruin any trip fast. Pick and good crew and it doesn't matter what you encounter you will still have a great trip!

We've a number of Grand trips that have been assignment free and the theme was simple. If you look around and it isn't done just go take care of it. Not everyone is good at everything so capitalize on their strengths.

This method only works on smaller trips but its awesome when it does.

Have fun and be safe this season.

 

[Flaco]

A designated driver (shore patrol) for some river trips, just to make sure everyone makes it to their tent's ok and has a nice breskfast in the morning, after a night of hard partying. Not all trips need a designated shore patrol person, I understand that too. When I wake up in the morning with a life jacket securely fastened on me and face down in a sagebrush I know someone, was halfway looking out for me, it's very comforting know someone has my back.

Awesome

 

[DarrylH]

Dave - I've posted a screen shot for you - the spreadsheet is simple to adjust to you trip needs. I tried to include all of the info that might be necessary to cover everything from family wanting to know where you are, to a river ranger looking for a group or individual on a river, to an actual emergency or medical transport. With this, everyone knows how to get hold of the appropriate people - especially if you get separated or someone is trying to locate you. Not being able to communicate sucks. I always include the local Sheriff's office and screen shots of NOAA weather forecasts too. Darryl

 

[raymo]

Metaphorically speaking;

Awesome

Thank you Flaco, I knew you understood I was Metaphorically speaking about the life jack and waking up face down in a sagebrush. Happy boating.

 

[luckylauren]

We have done a handful of trips multiple different ways.

But I guess the tip that I'm going to leave here is the 2-minute rule. If you are looking around or need something to be done, the 2-minute rule should apply. If it takes less than 2-minutes for you to do it, just do it! It'll take you just as long or longer to rally someone else to do it instead.

Other tips- if you don't know- ASK! I own the kitchen box we use, and it all packs in, although in a very specific way, and if you weren't paying attention when you pulled it all apart, you are going to be lost in the AM. But guess what, I've packed it a bunch of times, so I am a great resource when it comes to packing it back up. This doesn't mean I want to be on the hook for packing it every morning, I still have PG, maybe groove duty, maybe my floor is flat and I am furiously pumping, but I can provide pointers.

If you go boating all the time, take the time to get yourself good equipment and maybe a dash of group equipment. Drybags that don't leak, splash pants that fit right, maybe a rocket box or two, a propane tank, it can definitely help when you have exploded at the boat ramp and realize that there isn't any room for those Chicken-A-La-King ingredients that you need for night 8.

Patience- things will go wrong! It might rain for your entire trip! But thank god you got loaned that giant tarp that takes 5 tries to rig and everyone trying to rig it.

And that's okay because at least you aren't trying to submit all those TPS reports that were due on Saturday.

 

[lncoop]

And that's okay because at least you aren't trying to submit all those TPS reports that were due on Saturday.

.......and don't forget the cover sheet.