Took me a long time to accept it, but fires are a luxury and not entirely necessary. Once you accept that, the idea of hauling extra steel and gas to have a propane fire begins takes on new meaning.

Those 3-candle "Candelabra" units put out plenty of light to sit around and enjoy the evening. Likewise, a small, single mantle Primus lantern, backed by starlight or the moon, provides plenty of ambience.

Just my opinion. The Woodland will definitely use a bunch of gas. On high it burns 30,000 btu. According to Answers.com, a gallon of propane (4.23 lbs) can produce 91,500 BTUs, about 3 hours + on high. So a 20 lb propane bottle will run roughly 15 hours on high.

I'd rather relax around a candle or small lantern and enjoy the stars and moonlight than worry about how much propane I have left, not to mention crowding my boat with the extra weight.

Travel light, ease your burdens. Or bring some real wood and have a few selective small fires on some nights.

 

do you have the logs? I didn't purchase any for mine because most of the rivers with burn regs don't allow this. I'm sure GC is different.

It cost about $15 to refill a tank. I'd test everything before you go - rather than trust someone recollection of how it worked. If you have a scale, weigh the tank, run it at a party, and report back the propane consumption rate for your fireplace ...
or if you have one of those nifty clearviews, you can easily gauge the consumption based on levels.

FYI Uhaul online seems to have the best price on the clearview tanks. $85 for the 10lb and $90 for the 20lb which you probably would want for a grand trip. (same price as amazon.com for the 20)

U-Haul: Moving supplies: Lite Cylinder Propane Cylinders

 

With the woodland unit in campfire mode, a "choker" plate is put in place that reduces the airflow thus producing a less efficient yellow flame. It seems to me that the fire produced is just as nice when set at a lowered flame because the stove is less noisy and uses far less fuel that way. On high or low, the unit does not produce much warmth so its flame is mostly for the ambience. I have not used the unit on a nightly basis so cannot help with fuel use calcs but would assume a #20 tank would do at least a week and maybe two when used throttled back.

 

The Power Stove with logs uses very little fuel. It's quiet when used as a campfire and is nowhere near the high output use used for cooking - which also lasts surprisingly long. Bring one extra propane bomb and you'll get 10 or more nights at least, probably the whole trip. Two and you're more than set and have some extra propane should someone lose a tank. This is from my experience using this setup, which I own, in the Grand Canyon. Don't listen to the naysayers, it was a treat to have when we've not been able to build a fire. However, don't count on it as your water boiler AND your fire. Bring a second blaster or Power Stove for that.

You'll enjoy using the little stove, but bring a bunch of firewood too, you'll be glad you did. Also, bring extra stakes for the power stove.

 

Good tip Randy, about taking two powerstoves/blasters. We do have two available within our group and I hadn't even thought of the conflict between boiling water and having a fire. Good thing the actual stove is small and light so we'll probably take two. I think I calculated something like 3 bombs for 21 nights of fire at full blast for 1.5 hours per fire. So I like your recommendation on 2 bombs for 20 nights, that seems more realistic and it's good to know you don't really run it on high.

 

Have you thought about burning Java-Logs? They burn for two or three hours each (depending on which you buy), are 100% recycled, have a low ash content, and are inexpensive compared to a gas log setup.

 

I use the coleman logs. You can buy them at wal-mart for around $3.50 each, and they burn 6-8 hours. They dont spark. They come in a fairly water proof wrap, i still put them in a trash bag inside of a gunny sack. But its a great way to have a fire and not pack a huge amount of wood. Next time im going to try cutting one in half to see if i can cut the burn time down. Wish i could party for 8 hours but i usually am in bed long before the log quits burning.

 

Oh you don't even run it close to high. I would guess that ideal campfire is 5% of max output of the WPS, 10% for big fire. The little logs are nice, but hardly anyone carries them anymore so have your local shop order some several weeks in advance.

I'm jealous. Spring in the Grand Canyon is sweet! You'll be glad to have fires for the long, cool evenings.

 

Mmmm.... I like the Coleman/Java log idea. At least you get a little heat. Love campfires, just not the mess. Tried artificial fire (propane). In the end, it was a short-lived idea and the novelty wore off. Wasn't a WPS system, but same principles applied - - too much weight, equipment, tinkering, etc. to be meaningful over time.

 

too much weight, equipment, tinkering, etc. to be meaningful over time.

You must not have read the part about this being a Grand Canyon trip.

 

Yah, I did, and there are arguments on both sides. Wouldn't normally jump with a negative but my experience with propane fires was not good, after a lot of effort. Since then I've gotten to the point that if I see I firepan on a trip where it's not REALLY cold I avoid it. Just my thing. Thought I'd share the experience. Hopefully the WPS system works better than what I had, but I ran through all those gas calculations several times and decided it wasn't worth it. If on a trip where there is no wood I sometimes bring a duffle of wood from home, or just go without.

 

So do Java logs really smell like coffee when they burn?

 

java smell



I can't comment about the smell. I've yet to burn a Java Log. I only learned about them last week from a coworker. They seem like a good alternative to hauling a huge pile of wood and dealing with the ash and partially burned logs. I'm guessing that a single Java Log takes up about 1/6 the volume of the amount of chopped wood required for a fire. Does that sound right?

 

Burning a Java Log? Doesnt this belong in the groover forum?

 

There is no groover forum.

 

Kayakers are always complaining about the rafters i figure we could give them their own forum

 

Another thing. Java logs won't explode and blow up your raft, like a propane cylinder could.

 

So you should cook with Java logs too? How many Java logs for 40 hot meals?

 

Another thing. Java logs won't explode and blow up your raft, like a propane cylinder could.

Has this ever really happened? Or is this like Mikey and Pop Rocks?

I've got the clearview (so i can tell at a glance my fuel level, plus lighter amd less chance of harm if you slam into it). I've seen videos of these dissolving in an inferno without exploding. Which a steel tank would probably do. But for real, if your boat is that hot you have bigger worries

 

Mythbusters did a bust on this. Also search propane101. I'd be more worried from an ember from a burning log. BTW. Mikey is alive and well in NYC

 

Good grief people. We have a group that doesn't want to carry a bunch of heavy wood, so propane fires seem to be a good alternative. It's nice to have a fire to sit around, even if it doesn't produce a lot of heat. Fires help bring everyone together, which is especially important on the Grand Canyon. We can then talk about the coming days, what people want to do, distance, camps, hikes, etc and come up with a collaborative plan. Without fires people tend to disperse a lot more and it's harder to pull a group together for a discussion. Nothing is more of a drag than trying to get people together "for a talk", it is so much smoother to just have those discussions when people are already together.

Plus, we will have a lot of spare propane in case there is a problem with a tank, something I've experienced first hand. If we blast through our propane we'll have the luxury of stopping fires and saving it for cooking.

 

I usually bring a load of Tar Sand, soon to be hauled on a highway near you

 

We don't need Tar Sands equipment to f#ck up the Lochsa (thankfully they are now taking the freeways instead). A triple fuel tanker spilled this past weekend. Great, more fuel into the Lochsa.

 

lhowemt, you're planning very well. Ignore the people who tell you that you don't need a fire. You're camping for the better part of a month, you need to have fires for so many reasons. Of course it's a luxury, but a necessary luxury - like beer. You could raft the Grand with neither, but it wouldn't be the same...

 

"lhowemt, you're planning very well. Ignore the people who tell you that you don't need a fire. You're camping for the better part of a month, you need to have fires for so many reasons. Of course it's a luxury, but a necessary luxury - like beer. You could raft the Grand with neither, but it wouldn't be the same... "

amen!

 

An alternative to consider...

...is a Campfire In A Can.
I made one of these a couple years ago and it provides a remarkable campfire ambiance and a two or three would easily cover a full Grand trip.
Very compact, easy to light and snuff, no ashes and no extra propane necessary. Here's the recipe I saved from a Warren Musselman posting some time ago:

1) Take a #10 coffee can.
2) Cut and tightly roll up corrugated cardboard to fit the roll vertically and as tightly as possible into the can. Put a piece of cotton thread or candle wick material in the middle when you start to roll it. You can even use scotch tape to hold it in place.
3) Stick can in oven set to 225 degrees or slightly lower temperature and let it heat up for 1/2 hour or so can and cardboard are very hot.
4) Melt block paraffin wax (from food canning dept in grocery) in a pot on the stove. I used 1 1/2 blocks the size of a 1# block of butter.
5) pour wax into can
6) Put back in oven to make sure everything soaks through to the bottom and fills all spaces in the corrugated cardboard.
7) Add more wax as needed to fill corrugations to the top and fully soak cardboard.
8) Repeat steps 5 thru 8 as necessary.

A can of this type can be lit and will burn over the entire exposed surface. Lasts for MANY multi-day trips.

 

I've heard you can make a candle like that and refuel it with your bacon grease too.

Wax boxes from the produce department are pretty fun too!

 

I've heard you can make a candle like that and refuel it with your bacon grease too.

I'd avoid doing that in bear country - talk about an attractant!
The can is easy to refuel with more parrafin between trips.

 

anyone tried this one?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000L4HSH8...AVUBJNME5QY5&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B000L4HSH8

Lots of similar options. All a little bulkier than the WPS

 

So you should cook with Java logs too? How many Java logs for 40 hot meals?

No. A java log probably wouldn't work well for cooking. But if you have a decent propane cook stove the java log would be enough for sitting around.