jackson's don't last in colorado.

 

As in they break or as in they sell quick?

 

The bottom line is both are excellent boats. Any pros or cons would really me minimal. My advice would be to buy which ever one YOU like for your own reasons. Neither one will make you a better boater but the one YOU like best will be the one you use the most and the more you go the better you get. For me the butt test usually determines which boat I use. I sit in the boat for an hour in front of the tv or at shop and if my butt hurts I don't buy it.

 

Demoed both last year and paddled high water laps on #s & Browns. Liked the Zen better. Bought a L Zen this season & have had it on low volume creeks and high volume rivers. Still really liking it. Agree that you'll have your own opinion after trying them both...


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Mamba is more forgiving for the intermediate

 

Zen is an incredibly versatile boat. Many schools are switching to them for easy paddling, easy to outfit and easy to roll. Then on the other end of the spectrum the top men's and woman's spots in the Homestake Steep Creek Championships were paddling Zens. It also won the short boat category in the Numbers Race.

All this means is the Zen is a very capable river runner and creeker with lots of stability and speed. I'd say you should go take one for a spin and see what you think.


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May as well piggy back on this thread. I'm more of a Browns, Numbers, Clear Creek type of guy. The upper end of my comfort if I'm having a good year are high water #s, low water Gore, Bailey...maybe OBJ etc.

Are there other boats to throw in the mix (new or used)?. Karma, Squirrel, etc.? You can demo on the Ark but I never seem to be able to get an idea on how they would handle in shallow blast rock mank. Of course the semi-planning hull creeker is always marketed as "rad in big water, rad in shallow creeks, catches eddies wicked good but don't trip up on rocks bruh!"

I'm 5'11 160, old but still strong as an ox. Seems like I prefer bigger boats and would like some capacity for shorter overnighters. Is the sweet spot for volume +/- 85 gallons?

Anyone want to try and talk me into their clapped out used whip they are trying to get rid of?

 

The Internet can't tell you which one will be right for you. Both are great. Both suck. If you're buying new, the shops will count your demos toward a purchase so demo both, eh? If you're buying used you'll be lucky to find either and you'll likely get used to whatever you buy. I have a mamba 8.1 you can buy for 750; it is the best boat ever made.


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All the recent creekers are good or bad depending on personal tastes. It will be tough to find either of the two most popular/recent boats out there used and for a good deal. I like the comfort of the Contour outfitting but dislike the setup, Jackson outfitting ok but super easy to setup or share the boat. Like the flotation of the Mamba but prefer the edges of the Zen. Hated rolling the Mamba but Zen rolls itself almost. Why not the Karma? The MD is a pretty sweet boat, it is at home on everything.


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He he, I've found the mamba to be among the easiest to roll of any boats I've owned -- but then again, I don't find any boats "hard to roll", so it may be my technique. Solution: Confluence Kayaks in Denver has both Jackson and Dagger, and a pool to practice rolling them in.

 

have to agree with Dman. If you are referring to the newer 8.6 it is definitely harder to roll than the original 8.5, or a Nomad. Reason probably being the enormous width at 27.75"s and a very generous depth. The 8.1 may be much easier just looking at the specs. If you are short torsoed and not too flexible the 8.6 is a bit of a problem, rollwise.

 

Yep, the 8.6. Looks massive, feels massive. Just in the cockpit area, the rest all good. Although I didn't like rolling it, I did hand roll it pretty easy. Go figure. The nomad rolls like a beach ball, soooo easy.


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Jackson's don't crack any quicker than any other boat. The crackson myth is just that a myth. If you beater down rapids and swim all the time it doesn't matter whether you paddle a prijon or a Fluid your is boat going to break.

 

Ah, so that's why my Prijon is broken.

I think you're good either way. I'd definitely go Mamba because the outfitting works way better for me - plus, how can the entire Pacific Northwest be wrong. I've never paddled the Zen though and I'm sure it's fine. Don't overthink it.

 

Mamba 8.6 boater here

Mamba pros:
(1) Really Stable
(2) boofs great
(3) Handles mank better than you would think
(4) looks sexy
(5) very comfortable secure outfitting
(6) More durable than a Jackson
(7) chicks dig it

Mamba cons
(1) Slower than Zen
(2) Leakier than a Zen
(3) It will feel too big if you have short stubby arms
(4) It will feel too heavy if you have little flabby muscles

 

Another Broken Prijon. Is this a trend? All my friends break Prijons.

But, Kevin hit it on the nose, don't over think it, just buy a boat.

 

jmack:

Why do you say the Mamba is more durable? Is it the hull, the outfitting? Can you elaborate?

And I'm 48, do all chics prefer the Mamba? Younger ones, Older ones, please elaborate. I'd hate for my significant other to leave me for this after all these years.

 

jmack:

Why do you say the Mamba is more durable? Is it the hull, the outfitting? Can you elaborate?

And I'm 48, do all chics prefer the Mamba? Younger ones, Older ones, please elaborate. I'd hate for my significant other to leave me for this after all these years.

I can vouch the older and younger chics definitely prefer the Mamba. I got laid a lot more after paddling the Mamba overseas, without even speaking the language, than I do stateside in my Bazooka. Anyone want to trade a Mamba for a Bazooka?

 

Yes, chicks loves to grind on the mamba....

"The hardest thing about paddling a mamba is keeping all girls off ya at the bar."