[shappattack]

Another thing for you to consider as an individual is that you don't have to limit yourself to one type of craft. You can do both, you can have an IK (in many different forms), you can have a real kayak, or three or four (in many, many different forms), then add a SUP, and a small paddle raft, and a big oar rig, and a cataraft, and a boogie board, and a river board, and an inner tube, and a snorkel along with some cute flippers. The possibilities are friggin endless.

Bingo!


p.s. notice the "real kayak" terminology

 

[AlanS]

p.s. notice the "real kayak" terminology

Made from stretched seal skins and driftwood? Yeeehaw!



I think it's been mentioned before in this thread, but make sure whatever you get fits YOU well. I've got a tricky hip, and I've never found a hardshell that I could paddle for more than about 30 minutes before the hip starts to act up. After paddling a lot of IK's, I finally settled on an NRS Outlaw I, with an Aire Cheetah Chair in it. That combo works great for me, and I can paddle it for hours. Some other IK models didn't work for me at all.

I hope you're not as decrepit as I am, and your choices are easier, but it's something to keep in mind.

 

[bystander]

My first year was on an IK, then I switched to a hard shell and the moment I switched, I noticed a huge performance leap. Hard shell kayak's are more maneuverable, and hold a line better than an IK. The main drawback is the need for a strong roll, or you'll have more exhausting swims.

An IK may be more like a truck compared to a hard shell being more of a sports car.

 

[shappattack]

My first year was on an IK, then I switched to a hard shell and the moment I switched, I noticed a huge performance leap. Hard shell kayak's are more maneuverable, and hold a line better than an IK. The main drawback is the need for a strong roll, or you'll have more exhausting swims.

An IK may be more like a truck compared to a hard shell being more of a sports car.

I actually went the other way, started hard shelling as a teenager and into my early 20s. Then stopped kayaking for a while as I started to get back pain and nerve pain from sitting in the kayak for more than about 30 minutes. I dabbled with whitewater canoes as they provide greater comfort for me, but didn't like it much. I started paddling IKs in the late 1990s and never looked back for the comfort factor. My opinion is biased however, as I prefer very low flow runs and multiday, of which IKs are well suited. If I was charging Class IV to V steep big water, I would think differently.

 

[Learch]

IK's are where I started. I am too big for hard shell kayaks, and I don't think I'd ever be comfortable in one anyways. I have put many, many miles of IKs in a few different states, and many points have already been made. In Oregon, I can take an IK down just about anything that I feel comfortable with. I never do class V's, but I will do certain class IV's in a ducky. The runs that I see the local kayak clubs on regularly are what I run with my Lynx I.
Truth be known, if you are wanting to run Class IV and V, I'd start in a hard shell kayak. They perform better, and the performance ceiling is taller, no matter how you slice it. If you want to run overnight trips, IK's are better pack boats. They are forgiving, and you can run a more difficult class of whitewater faster in an IK, due to them being more stable and not having to learn your roll. If you are committed to learning to roll, get a hardshell.
I prefer to keep my boats as rigged as possible. I don't deflate my kayak, so I don't take any longer than the hardshell kayakers. I have become very proficient at self rescue, and one advantage I like is that my swims are not as perilous as a hardshell kayaker swimming. Also my craft is easier to catch. They also make better communal boats. I had 4 IK's at one time, now we are down to one. It is easy to toss a rookie in an IK for a day of fun. I got really good a using currents to my advantage, It makes keeping up with faster boats easier. I hope this helps.

 

[merritrd]

IKs

One item that nobody is talking about is fitting yourself into an IK. Not only do you need a seat/back brace, thigh straps and foot braces/thwarts really help with the performance of the boat. Proper bracing allows and help downstream bracing and turning the boat.

A boat that is too wide in the hips has less control than a tighter boat.

 

[lmyers]

Good to know. I will have to take the IK out on some lower flows and try it out. Sorry to spread false info.


Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz

Your not necessarily spreading false info, you just styled a low water Numbers run! If you got skills you can IK solid IV-/IV at very low water..... That said, I recommend a hard shell wholeheartedly

 

[InflatableSteve]

Your not necessarily spreading false info, you just styled a low water Numbers run! If you got skills you can IK solid IV-/IV at very low water..... That said, I recommend a hard shell wholeheartedly

Yeah, that was at 240 though. Every river is different. I was on the Verde yesterday at 180. I snagged in spots where the water is maybe 6" deep while the guy I paddled with went right on through the same spot with no problems in his playboat.

For OP, another thing to consider is material of IK. Mine is PVC, which I have been really happy with over all. Though Hypalon or Urethane might slip over rocks a little better.

 

[kayak bunny]

I started on an IK and got a hard shell this summer, mostly because my IK is only rated for class I and II and I wanted to move toward becoming a better III. Plus it was getting a bit beat up by hitting a lot of rocks.

I see IK’s going through III’s and IV’s and wondered if there were situations when one type was better than another. From all of your comments, it sounds like it’s all personal preference and they are both fun, but in different ways.

I've noticed, which you've confirmed is the hard shell has more maneuverability. With the IK, I used to "see the rock" and then "hit the rock". With the hard shell, I can 'see the rock', and ‘miss the rock' with plenty of room to spare.

Also what you've confirmed is that the IK is good fun for people with little experience. They definitely are stable. With the hard shell, the same rapids that I did easily with the IK, now are a little intimidating, which is confusing because with more maneuverability, I'd think I'd have more confidence, but that’s not the case.

With the hard shell, there's really no where to put all my stuff - lunch, dry clothes, etc.

The extremely low flow issue is interesting. In low water, I hit all the rocks, get stuck on the rocks, and worry that I will puncture the IK. Plus I can feel all the rocks on my butt/legs. I have not tried the hard shell in low water. Seems to be a mixed bag of opinions.

I never considered using the IK as a sleeping pad or couch. Great idea.

The wind catching the IK and going through the rapid backwards? I do that with the IK and the hard shell – for me it’s not wind related.

IKs are easier to transport. Definitely. But you can’t really drag an IK like a hard shell. For example, my hard shell is a bit heavy for me so I can’t carry it over my shoulder. This means I have to drag it out of the water, over all the rocks, and through a parking lot to my car. Not sure I’d do that with my IK, but then I don’t have to since I can carry it.

Fitting – I don’t have thigh straps on the IK. I’ve used them surf kayaking in the ocean so I can relate to how they would be of benefit. I think that’s why I decided to buy the hard shell was because with the thigh braces, I felt like I had so much control.
And finally, when the IK flips and we get separated, it doesn’t fill up with water, but if I could roll a little better, that wouldn’t be an issue with the hard shell.

Thanks for all of the pros/cons. Looks like I should keep both and see which one I get better with.

 

[Melrose]

IK's better at ELF flows....??? Yeah right, you can't rock boof an IK!
IK's are great for friends, who don't boat. I spent a season in an IK after shoulder surgery, it was nice to relax and float, but they severely lack in performance.
Once your skills improve, you will be frustrated. They are poor at surfing, can't squirt, and sitting water all day sucks unless it is really hot. IK's are perfect for runs like the gunny gorge, but you won't see one upriver on the black canyon.
And catching air from rocky boofs is one of the things I like most about boating in the off season...which is most of the season in Colorado.

 

[gunnerman]

Wow what a wonderful thread with some great comparisons and solid good advice. I didn't begin kayaking until I was 50 years of age in 2008, and my buddy was even older he was 56, so we just agreed that IK was the way to go. For me the decision was easy due to the fact that my vision is 20/100 without my glasses (over half bind). So even if I master the roll what happens if my glasses get smashed on a rock while down and now I have to finish 3miles of class IV river seeing nothing downstream. And after running many class III runs I was quite content with that level. However after buying my Tomcat it did occur to me that footpegs and thighstraps were a must to tackle technical class III+ and IV-. I love the Tomcat because of price, stability, load range and overall versatility. I have beat the hell out of that IK and it shows, so I am looking for a slightly lighter IK. I do have a tiny Sevylor XK100DS that I take on really technical crap, but I enjoy low flow class III more every day. I kayak with alot of hardshellers but stay in my comfort zone, and do my best to stay in my boat. Good luck!!!

 

[soggy_tortillas]

Sorry... I felt like writing a book...

Kayak Bunny: "I started on an IK and got a hard shell this summer, mostly because my IK is only rated for class I and II and I wanted to move toward becoming a better III. Plus it was getting a bit beat up by hitting a lot of rocks."
“With the hard shell, there's really no where to put all my stuff - lunch, dry clothes, etc.”
What boats are you paddling?? That's just a downright lie. There should be a good amount of space behind your seat in the stern. Again, what kinda boat are you paddling? Play boat will obviously have less stern volume than a river runner or a creeker, but that varies too. My boyfriend's new Fun has more volume in the stern than his old H3 does. You can also get a combination float bag/dry bag called a stow float--- these are wonderful gifts from the river gods, that will hold your gear AND air. If you still have too much gear in your boat, either stop packing like a girl or make friends with rafters.

“I've noticed, which you've confirmed is the hard shell has more maneuverability. With the IK, I used to "see the rock" and then "hit the rock". With the hard shell, I can 'see the rock', and ‘miss the rock' with plenty of room to spare.”
Boof the rock!!--- When applicable.

“Also what you've confirmed is that the IK is good fun for people with little experience. They definitely are stable. With the hard shell, the same rapids that I did easily with the IK, now are a little intimidating, which is confusing because with more maneuverability, I'd think I'd have more confidence, but that’s not the case.”
Confidence has been key for me. So much of kayaking is in your head. Believe in yourself- you’ll hit your line. You’re a ninja!!!

“The extremely low flow issue is interesting. In low water, I hit all the rocks, get stuck on the rocks, and worry that I will puncture the IK. Plus I can feel all the rocks on my butt/legs. I have not tried the hard shell in low water. Seems to be a mixed bag of opinions. “
Try your hard shell in low water. Practice boofing. Low water is also an excellent time to practice ferrying, catching eddies, surfing, splatting. The water isn’t as pushy so if you fuck up it doesn’t suck quite as much, it makes it easier to goof around. Sometimes the water is so channelized you have no choice other than to ferry or boof or whathaveyou. Good learning experience.

“The wind catching the IK and going through the rapid backwards? I do that with the IK and the hard shell – for me it’s not wind related.”
Sometimes going through a rapid backwards isn’t a bad thing. It gives you a chance to scout your line a little bit, and if you’re not in the right place you’re already in the perfect position for an upstream ferry to correct yourself. If I’m feeling really confident I’ll try to run the whole river sideways or backwards.

“IKs are easier to transport. Definitely. But you can’t really drag an IK like a hard shell. For example, my hard shell is a bit heavy for me so I can’t carry it over my shoulder. This means I have to drag it out of the water, over all the rocks, and through a parking lot to my car. Not sure I’d do that with my IK, but then I don’t have to since I can carry it.”
What kind of boat do you have? It shouldn’t be that heavy…. Poor kayak.

“And finally, when the IK flips and we get separated, it doesn’t fill up with water, but if I could roll a little better, that wouldn’t be an issue with the hard shell.”
It is a bummer when you take a swim and you are forced to maneuver a boat full of water to the shore and dump it out, but it’s really no big deal. Find a spot you’re comfortable taking voluntary swims and practice self rescues. Try different ways of dumping out your boat to find out what works best for you. I still don’t have a solid roll, but I’m quite efficient at self rescues at this point. I’d also like to say, please don’t let not having a solid roll discourage you from paddling. I have only swam three times this year out of more than 120 days on the water. Brace. Brace. Brace. If your brace fails, try a roll, if your roll fails, go for a swim. Swims build character.

 

[mikesee]

There are hardshells, and there are IK's.

I think packrafts fall pretty much right in between. Way more maneuverable than an IK, way more gear storage than a kayak. Easy to learn to roll, and they pack really small so they're easy to transport--in a pack, on a bike, in your backseat.

Class V is doable in a packraft, but you better bring those skills with you when buying the boat--don't expect to learn them if you come to boating via packraft.

 

[JIMM]

Re IK or hardshell?

Just get one of each ...no, really. In time you will like one or the other more or maybe both equally, like me. There are some rivers/rapids that are a big bore in the IK and I will use my hardshell for those and there are some which I find intimidating in a hardshell so I will ducky them.Sometimes I will take both boats out on the same river, each for different sections. Only you will be able to figure out the pros and cons of each over time. My roll comes and goes so I like to have the ducky option at hand.
Hope this helps.

 

[bystander]

Just get one of each ...no, really. In time you will like one or the other more or maybe both equally, like me. There are some rivers/rapids that are a big bore in the IK and I will use my hardshell for those and there are some which I find intimidating in a hardshell so I will ducky them.Sometimes I will take both boats out on the same river, each for different sections. Only you will be able to figure out the pros and cons of each over time. My roll comes and goes so I like to have the ducky option at hand.
Hope this helps.

I like the idea of having both, but more for the ability to bring friends to the river. You won't be able to bring a friend more than once if you throw them into a hardshell, but they will have fun in an IK. If they really like the water, they'll learn to roll and become a kayaker.

 

[JIMM]

Quite true. I often used to put my non kayaking neighbour in the ducky on low consequence water. Few people who start out this way will wean themselves into a hardshell though.

 

[bystander]

Quite true. I often used to put my non kayaking neighbour in the ducky on low consequence water. Few people who start out this way will wean themselves into a hardshell though.

Most people we bring see us in playboats, surfing and having a lot of fun while they wait in the eddies. They soon want a hardshell so they can have fun on the waves. Though most people simply don't become kayakers. They just enjoy a few trips on the water in the summer.

 

[johnsnow420]

split the difference and get a pack raft!! the new one that they make, the ALPACKALYPSE is the first ever whitewater pack raft and its sweet. alpaca makes a ton of awesome IKs that can be great for whitewater and have the control, dryness, and maneuverability of a hard boat. The best part is they are bad ass and can be taken almost anywhere. Only downside is the price.. but its just money. check out https://alpackarafts.com/

 

[kayak bunny]

Sorry... I felt like writing a book...

Kayak Bunny: "I started on an IK and got a hard shell this summer, mostly because my IK is only rated for class I and II and I wanted to move toward becoming a better III. Plus it was getting a bit beat up by hitting a lot of rocks."
“With the hard shell, there's really no where to put all my stuff - lunch, dry clothes, etc.”
What boats are you paddling?? That's just a downright lie. There should be a good amount of space behind your seat in the stern. Again, what kinda boat are you paddling? Play boat will obviously have less stern volume than a river runner or a creeker, but that varies too. My boyfriend's new Fun has more volume in the stern than his old H3 does. You can also get a combination float bag/dry bag called a stow float--- these are wonderful gifts from the river gods, that will hold your gear AND air. If you still have too much gear in your boat, either stop packing like a girl or make friends with rafters.

“I've noticed, which you've confirmed is the hard shell has more maneuverability. With the IK, I used to "see the rock" and then "hit the rock". With the hard shell, I can 'see the rock', and ‘miss the rock' with plenty of room to spare.”
Boof the rock!!--- When applicable.

“Also what you've confirmed is that the IK is good fun for people with little experience. They definitely are stable. With the hard shell, the same rapids that I did easily with the IK, now are a little intimidating, which is confusing because with more maneuverability, I'd think I'd have more confidence, but that’s not the case.”
Confidence has been key for me. So much of kayaking is in your head. Believe in yourself- you’ll hit your line. You’re a ninja!!!

“The extremely low flow issue is interesting. In low water, I hit all the rocks, get stuck on the rocks, and worry that I will puncture the IK. Plus I can feel all the rocks on my butt/legs. I have not tried the hard shell in low water. Seems to be a mixed bag of opinions. “
Try your hard shell in low water. Practice boofing. Low water is also an excellent time to practice ferrying, catching eddies, surfing, splatting. The water isn’t as pushy so if you fuck up it doesn’t suck quite as much, it makes it easier to goof around. Sometimes the water is so channelized you have no choice other than to ferry or boof or whathaveyou. Good learning experience.

“The wind catching the IK and going through the rapid backwards? I do that with the IK and the hard shell – for me it’s not wind related.”
Sometimes going through a rapid backwards isn’t a bad thing. It gives you a chance to scout your line a little bit, and if you’re not in the right place you’re already in the perfect position for an upstream ferry to correct yourself. If I’m feeling really confident I’ll try to run the whole river sideways or backwards.

“IKs are easier to transport. Definitely. But you can’t really drag an IK like a hard shell. For example, my hard shell is a bit heavy for me so I can’t carry it over my shoulder. This means I have to drag it out of the water, over all the rocks, and through a parking lot to my car. Not sure I’d do that with my IK, but then I don’t have to since I can carry it.”
What kind of boat do you have? It shouldn’t be that heavy…. Poor kayak.

“And finally, when the IK flips and we get separated, it doesn’t fill up with water, but if I could roll a little better, that wouldn’t be an issue with the hard shell.”
It is a bummer when you take a swim and you are forced to maneuver a boat full of water to the shore and dump it out, but it’s really no big deal. Find a spot you’re comfortable taking voluntary swims and practice self rescues. Try different ways of dumping out your boat to find out what works best for you. I still don’t have a solid roll, but I’m quite efficient at self rescues at this point. I’d also like to say, please don’t let not having a solid roll discourage you from paddling. I have only swam three times this year out of more than 120 days on the water. Brace. Brace. Brace. If your brace fails, try a roll, if your roll fails, go for a swim. Swims build character.

Soggy Tortillas, I always find your books entertaining!

I've got a Diesel, but I've got the entire stern stuffed full of float bags. Just recently I saw the stow floats, so maybe that will be my next purchase.

I'm a ninja! Got it!

I was in Steamboat today. I saw three kayakers on the Yampa and was very jealous that I didn't have mine. Would have loved to have tried out the kayak on the low water. Looked very doable.

'Poor kayak' - The boat isn't all that heavy, relatively speaking, it's that I'm pretty slight. My partner generally helps me lug it from A to B, but the IK allowed me to carry my own weight (so to speak).

Three swims out of 120 days on the water. Excellent! 120 days, wow! I'm so jealous.

Are there regular roll sessions during the off season in Steamboat? I would love to practice - there's nothing where I live.

Everyone keeps saying that swimming builds character. It's the ice cold water that builds character.

 

[soggy_tortillas]

Soggy Tortillas, I always find your books entertaining!

I've got a Diesel, but I've got the entire stern stuffed full of float bags. Just recently I saw the stow floats, so maybe that will be my next purchase.

I'm a ninja! Got it!

I was in Steamboat today. I saw three kayakers on the Yampa and was very jealous that I didn't have mine. Would have loved to have tried out the kayak on the low water. Looked very doable.

'Poor kayak' - The boat isn't all that heavy, relatively speaking, it's that I'm pretty slight. My partner generally helps me lug it from A to B, but the IK allowed me to carry my own weight (so to speak).

Three swims out of 120 days on the water. Excellent! 120 days, wow! I'm so jealous.

Are there regular roll sessions during the off season in Steamboat? I would love to practice - there's nothing where I live.

Everyone keeps saying that swimming builds character. It's the ice cold water that builds character.

120 days could be a slight exaggeration, but it's close.... we started our season in February this year.
I don't think there's really much in steamboat for an organized roll practice. Mountain sports does lessons, which I do intend on doing ... but I don't think there's any groups in town that do it. The downtown hot springs will let you go after 8 in the evening (have to have someone spot you) but I don't think they let you do it between labor day and memorial day (air temps, tourists? Not sure why). But if enough people wanted to get together I'd be willing to call around to some places to see about renting a pool for a couple hours once a month during the winter.
In the meantime if you're in steamboat again and want to paddle let me know. It's low, but it goes, and it's better than NOT kayaking after work. I have spare boats, paddles and the like too. Or if it's a weekend might be able to run pumphouse or the blue.