Couple weeks away from my first time down Deso. So excited. Hoping for some beta on the flow. Looks like its peaking right now or will be pretty soon. Trying to pull off a 5 day Sand Wash to Swazey's. Wondering what kind of miles we can realistically accomplish with a 6100 cfs flow. any word on the bug situation down there? Heard it can be epic. Figured we'd be ahead of the bug hatches with an April trip, but with this year's snowpack is killing my buzz daily and making me think I'll be arriving to Sand Wash just in time to be dinner. Any must see stops, awesome campsites or trip reports that can be shared would be appreciated. Thanks.
Desolation Canyon
tteton
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The only page I am aware of is the following:
USGS Current Conditions for USGS 09315000 GREEN RIVER AT GREEN RIVER, UT
You have to go through year by year to see its flow behavior.
There is also this:
Conditions Map
The Green historically doesn't peak this early. The upper basin still has a lot of snow but they could hold it to fill Flaming Gorge back to 6027 feet. The Uintahs are definitely desperate but still have 30-40% snow which is likely high elevation. The White and Yampa are both major tributaries that should bump up Deso when they peak. The Yampa is still sitting at 65% so I doubt its peaked yet.
It would be distressing if Deso peaked in early April, almost 6 weeks earlier than normal. Its possible but I can hope its not the case.
Phillip
USGS Current Conditions for USGS 09315000 GREEN RIVER AT GREEN RIVER, UT
You have to go through year by year to see its flow behavior.
There is also this:
Conditions Map
The Green historically doesn't peak this early. The upper basin still has a lot of snow but they could hold it to fill Flaming Gorge back to 6027 feet. The Uintahs are definitely desperate but still have 30-40% snow which is likely high elevation. The White and Yampa are both major tributaries that should bump up Deso when they peak. The Yampa is still sitting at 65% so I doubt its peaked yet.
It would be distressing if Deso peaked in early April, almost 6 weeks earlier than normal. Its possible but I can hope its not the case.
Phillip
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A couple samples. I skipped high water years. I would wager we are looking more like a flow regime similar to 2012.
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As you say the Snow Pack up high that supplies the Yampa and White is holding at better that 60%. If you look at the attached graph it appears that we are almost exactly on track with the 2012 and 2013 flows.
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The snowpack is well past peak, which is what that graph highlights.
Peak flows aren't represented by the graph above in accurate fashion. I would wager the peak will stay around or below 10k this year though, unless the Yampa or White flush higher and faster than normal.
Definitely a sad year made worse by it being a multiple year trend (in Utah at least).
Good levels for you either way. I am guessing sub-2k for us in October unless monsoon kicks up basin precip above average.
Phillip
Peak flows aren't represented by the graph above in accurate fashion. I would wager the peak will stay around or below 10k this year though, unless the Yampa or White flush higher and faster than normal.
Definitely a sad year made worse by it being a multiple year trend (in Utah at least).
Good levels for you either way. I am guessing sub-2k for us in October unless monsoon kicks up basin precip above average.
Phillip
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Here is the Utah snow report by snotel site:
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/report....gov/reports/UpdateReport.html?report=Utah&format=SNOTEL+Snowpack+Update+Report
Luckily the central Uintas still have about 60%+ snowpack above 10,000 feet that will buffer the lower elevation melt out we have already seen. Most sites definitely stayed well below median and peaked well before the median peak date as well.
Same goes for the Yampa and White in Colorado:
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/report.../reports/UpdateReport.html?report=Colorado&format=SNOTEL+Snowpack+Update+Report
They seem to be holding snow a little better down to about 9,000 feet.
Dismal but I wouldn't give up hope for a better peak flow just yet. It won't get very high but I would expect it to modulate at the current range for a bit and the peak again sometime in May.
Phillip
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/report....gov/reports/UpdateReport.html?report=Utah&format=SNOTEL+Snowpack+Update+Report
Luckily the central Uintas still have about 60%+ snowpack above 10,000 feet that will buffer the lower elevation melt out we have already seen. Most sites definitely stayed well below median and peaked well before the median peak date as well.
Same goes for the Yampa and White in Colorado:
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/report.../reports/UpdateReport.html?report=Colorado&format=SNOTEL+Snowpack+Update+Report
They seem to be holding snow a little better down to about 9,000 feet.
Dismal but I wouldn't give up hope for a better peak flow just yet. It won't get very high but I would expect it to modulate at the current range for a bit and the peak again sometime in May.
Phillip
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2012 flows stayed above 1k on Deso for quite a while, which is plenty of water. It has about 2k until the 20th or so, which is a fun level.
The picket fence on Joe Hutch definitely shows its teeth but it totally doable. And it could have mellowed out in the last 2 years as it is still in a dynamic state considering how recently it developed.
In a lot of ways I find low water Deso trips more fun. So many of the rapids in there mellow out at higher flows while low water keeps you busy and on your toes more once you pass Jack Creek.
Just know some of the camps are harder to access at lower water do to gravel bars or steep sand benches. Those are supplemented by many that get better.
Have a great trip.
Phillip
The picket fence on Joe Hutch definitely shows its teeth but it totally doable. And it could have mellowed out in the last 2 years as it is still in a dynamic state considering how recently it developed.
In a lot of ways I find low water Deso trips more fun. So many of the rapids in there mellow out at higher flows while low water keeps you busy and on your toes more once you pass Jack Creek.
Just know some of the camps are harder to access at lower water do to gravel bars or steep sand benches. Those are supplemented by many that get better.
Have a great trip.
Phillip
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Deso
Tteton - Lots of great advice - I'd pay attention to getting that inexpensive permit to camp on Indian land river left. If you're not rigging and camping at Sand Wash the night before you're going to have an even longer first day - 25 miles of a LOT of rowing - throw potential wind and Tamarisk clogged banks and the start might not be fun.
Melanie at RRT is fabulous - and they're worth every time for the shuttle.
The only advantage is you may be ahead of the skeeters - even Alaska can't compare with those at Sand Wash - tczues may be in for a June surprise. (I counted 72 bites in one ankle in 2011 and I reeked from bug spray.)
Restrac2000 was spot-on about wind - it can blow you backward in the middle of a rapid - I was wishing I had a helmet with face shield because of spray blowing off the river - we couldn't even set up tents until after dark waiting for a lull in the gale.
Be really cautious about bears - we had lots of tracks all through our camp at Range Creek - we packed up the kitchen and trash after dinner and made sure we had clean clothes in our tents - still had tracks on the boats in the morning. This is an interesting read: Utah Local News - Salt Lake City News, Sports, Archive - The Salt Lake Tribune
I like Nefertiti for my last night on river - it has a restroom!
All that said, you'll love the side canyons, creeks, and petroglyphs. I hope you come off river saying there wasn't any wind, skeeters or bears!
Darryl
Tteton - Lots of great advice - I'd pay attention to getting that inexpensive permit to camp on Indian land river left. If you're not rigging and camping at Sand Wash the night before you're going to have an even longer first day - 25 miles of a LOT of rowing - throw potential wind and Tamarisk clogged banks and the start might not be fun.
Melanie at RRT is fabulous - and they're worth every time for the shuttle.
The only advantage is you may be ahead of the skeeters - even Alaska can't compare with those at Sand Wash - tczues may be in for a June surprise. (I counted 72 bites in one ankle in 2011 and I reeked from bug spray.)
Restrac2000 was spot-on about wind - it can blow you backward in the middle of a rapid - I was wishing I had a helmet with face shield because of spray blowing off the river - we couldn't even set up tents until after dark waiting for a lull in the gale.
Be really cautious about bears - we had lots of tracks all through our camp at Range Creek - we packed up the kitchen and trash after dinner and made sure we had clean clothes in our tents - still had tracks on the boats in the morning. This is an interesting read: Utah Local News - Salt Lake City News, Sports, Archive - The Salt Lake Tribune
I like Nefertiti for my last night on river - it has a restroom!
All that said, you'll love the side canyons, creeks, and petroglyphs. I hope you come off river saying there wasn't any wind, skeeters or bears!
Darryl
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Wanted to add this in case others weren't aware -
On the Deso permit you don't need to add names, unlike Dino and Salmon ones. You only need to add up the total number of people and number of watercraft, and eventually pay before you go.
But DON'T print the permit on the rec.gov web site until it's finalized and you're getting ready to leave. Once printed you can't add anyone to the permit.
So for instance, not naming names, but if someone from Colo Springs gets a Deso permit, signs up only him and his cat, and then prints it - he's going by himself....
Hope this helps.
On the Deso permit you don't need to add names, unlike Dino and Salmon ones. You only need to add up the total number of people and number of watercraft, and eventually pay before you go.
But DON'T print the permit on the rec.gov web site until it's finalized and you're getting ready to leave. Once printed you can't add anyone to the permit.
So for instance, not naming names, but if someone from Colo Springs gets a Deso permit, signs up only him and his cat, and then prints it - he's going by himself....
Hope this helps.
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What's the deal with the Ute permit? Do you have to call? I can't seem to find a functioning website.
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Their standard site does seem to be down right now. I hope that is temporary as its was a great tool. I used it last year with ease.
http://www.uitfwd.com/Doc/desolationCanyonPermit.html
Phillip
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The website that is down is explicitly for the tribe's Fish and Wildlife Service.
Here is the website for the tribe and provides contact information for the FWS. Might be best to call them to find a solution until their website comes back online. Best of luck.
Fish & Wildlife
Phillip
Here is the website for the tribe and provides contact information for the FWS. Might be best to call them to find a solution until their website comes back online. Best of luck.
Fish & Wildlife
Phillip
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Ute Tribe camping
As mentioned by restrac2000, the website mentioned in recreation.gov (Desolation Gray - Green River Permit, UT) is not functioning. The east side of the river, above Coal Creek is Ute Tribal Land. Hiking and camping on Ute lands is allowed with a permit from the Ute Tribe. The tribal website is Home - The Fish and Wildlife Division Fisheries Department is at the Ute Plaza Grocery Store, located at 7750 E. US HWY 40, Ft. Duchesne, Utah 84026. (435) 722-3282. Also under Recreation they have a phone number listed as (435)722-2249. Most of the camps are on the west side of the river - a couple of years' ago I stayed at Chandler Canyon - nice camp with a beautiful stream running down the canyon - there's actually road access there.
As mentioned by restrac2000, the website mentioned in recreation.gov (Desolation Gray - Green River Permit, UT) is not functioning. The east side of the river, above Coal Creek is Ute Tribal Land. Hiking and camping on Ute lands is allowed with a permit from the Ute Tribe. The tribal website is Home - The Fish and Wildlife Division Fisheries Department is at the Ute Plaza Grocery Store, located at 7750 E. US HWY 40, Ft. Duchesne, Utah 84026. (435) 722-3282. Also under Recreation they have a phone number listed as (435)722-2249. Most of the camps are on the west side of the river - a couple of years' ago I stayed at Chandler Canyon - nice camp with a beautiful stream running down the canyon - there's actually road access there.
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