Your chances of getting struck by lightning are slim to none. Look at it this way, your in a rubber raft. As long as it clean your insulated. If your oar shafts are fiberglass, they are also insulated. Provided that they are clean, inside and out. So basically you are insulated, electricity won't see you as path to ground. You can take voltage all day long, as long as you don't provide a path to ground. Once you provide a path to ground, you enable current to flow through the body. This is what kills you. Imagine putting your self in a microwave and cooking your body from the inside out. That's what current flow through the body does. It only takes .5 milliamps to stop the heart, but your insulated, so no worries.

I happen to be a Journeyman Lineman. I deal with high voltages and more amps than any electrician out there. In a storm I would feel fine about being on the water in a clean raft, oar frame or not.

Oh, by the way, lightning comes from the ground. Not the sky.

 

This is very interesting. So I have one question. When you use the word "clean" what does that mean? I have a feeling you are not meaning did I 303 the raft before I took it out on the river today.

 

I don't know the dielectric properties of 303. I would have to put it on a non conductive surface then test it. As far as clean, basically free of dirt and minerals. If you were to wash the raft with water and a mild detergent, it would suit me just fine. A raft that has been left out side and allowed to collect dust and other contaminants, I would not trust. Take water for instance. Every one knows water is conductive. That's why you don't blow dry your hair in the bath tub. Actually it's not the water that is conductive, it's the minerals and contaminants in the water that make it conductive. Pure H2O with out minerals and contaminants is non-conductive.

 

I dunno where you do your boating, but the rivers in my neck of the woods are certainly not made up of nothing but pure h2o? In addition, I'd bet the farm most rafts (and other gear for that matter) on the water are dirty as hell. Am I missing something here?

 

The water doesn't have to be pure. It can conduct electricity all it wants. The key is to keep your self INSULATED. So that you don't pass electrical current, other wise known as amps. Your safer in a rubber raft in the lowest part of the canyon than you are if your standing on the bank next to a pine tree. I could go into detail about how electricity works and how it flows. That's not what this forum is for. Another member asked a question and I gave my professional opinion. Considering I've been working live powerlines for 18 years and still alive. I must be pretty good at understanding and working with electricity.

 

I'm not doubting your expertise man. I was just confused about your explanation considering that you kept referencing a CLEAN raft and CLEAN gear.

If you were to wash the raft with water and a mild detergent, it would suit me just fine.

My point here wasn't to dive into an explanation of how electricity works. My confusion though was based in the fact that YOU (who I admit knows better then me) stated the above. My point is an average raft owned by an average rafter doesn't keep a mild detergent on board in case of a thunderstorm. So that would imply that an expert like yourself would not want to be in my dirty raft? I understand that standing next to a tree is the deadlier option, but I think most people know that already, but what about on dry ground out in the open? Is my dirty raft worse then that, or safer? Not looking for a fight or a huge in depth explanation. Just some clarification.

 

The raft offers you some sort of insulation even if it is some what dirty. If the raft happens to be covered in mud it does no good. If you can insulate your self from the ground by using your raft. You increase your personal safety.

 

Dude. Somebody is arguing electricity with Linedawg.

 

Nice try.

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Thanks for the reply Linedawg. Makes more sense now. I was on the same page. I know the basics, I was just reading into it too much.

 

I wouldn't say arguing. To alot of people electricity is foreign. It's not a subject that is easily understood. It could just be me too. Heck my wife still can't keep up with a conversation between my self and another lineman. Add a internet forum into the mix just compounds the problem. Give me 10 minutes with nmalozzi in person and he would understand what I'm tring to explain alot easier.

 

I just have myself convinced that the bottom of a canyon is a relatively safe place to be during a lightening storm.

 

Bob was thinking of floating the colorado river in grand juction so its not a deep canyon. How would this change the chance of being struck.

 

You're more likely to get hit by a rock falling down from a lightning blast up top than be hit by lightning directly.

Go float and don't worry about it.

 

I think the insulating value of an inch of rubber is irrelevant when you consider the voltages involved in lightning. After all, air is a pretty good insulator, yet lightning manages to ionize it and travel--what--a mile to the ground. A quarter inch of rubber won't save you. If it would, no one would ever be killed by lightning as long as they were wearing rubber soled shoes...which is pretty common in this day and age.

Lightning does want to get to ground sooner rather than later, and will probably hit a peak or a tree before it goes to the bottom of a canyon to hit the water. So I generally feel safer in a deep river canyon. But there are no guarantees.

The one thing I always think about is, not everyone that is hit by lightning dies...but they are usually knocked unconscious for a while. I'd rather not be knocked unconscious while in a boat in moving water. So if the canyon and river is wide, it may be at least a little safer to be on shore, but as low as you can get.

 

I think the insulating value of an inch of rubber is irrelevant when you consider the voltages involved in lightning. After all, air is a pretty good insulator, yet lightning manages to ionize it and travel--what--a mile to the ground. A quarter inch of rubber won't save you. If it would, no one would ever be killed by lightning as long as they were wearing rubber soled shoes...which is pretty common in this day and age.

It's not the thickness of the rubber that matters. It's more about the surface area. Electricity doesn't flow through a conductor or an insulator. It flows around a conductor. The difference between a conductor and an insulator is all about free electrons in the outer valance ring of the atoms the substance if made from. Rubber is a stable material as far as its molecular structure is concerned. Another tid bit for you, as voltage increases current decreases proportionately (Ohms Law). All that lightning is, is the equalizing of potential between two electromagnetic fields, a positive and a negative. But you guys are the pro's so I'll just step out and let you hash it out. Guess I wasted my time going to school all those years.

 

Put another way---has anyone ever been struck by lightening while in a raft, duckie, kayak while floating?

Bob

 

here's a link from NOAA

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/resources/Lightning_What_you_Need_to_Know.pdf

Bob

 

When I teach wilderness first aid, I tell my students it's all about probability. It is more probable that the lightening will hit nearly anything that is taller than you. Canyon walls, trees etc are taller than a person sitting in the bottom of a raft in the bottom of a canyon. I like to think lightening is lazy. It'll strike the closest thing to it (which probably isn't you).

 

I would have to agree with the common sentiment here, which is that the raft won't provide any significant insulation (even if it is clean, what if it gets splashed?), but it won't matter because lightning is astronomically more likely to strike somewhere away from the river.

A deep canyon is definitely safe, but even a relatively shallow canyon will probably provide quite a bit of protection. Personally, I feel safe from lightning on any colorado river.

 

I think it mostly depends on what section of river you are on. You are obviously more likely to get struck by lightning on a class V section than a class II....or is it the other way around? Also, more likely if you are in a play boat than a creek boat.......

 

I just wouldn't argue throwing a football with Elway that's all. Insert further sarcasm here. Good luck with lightning Nmalozzi. It's sure a scary world out there.

Do or do not. There is no try.