I hear ya... I totally know your pain... I'm always looking for that next "miracle tool" too.I hate you guys. I'm looking at a spool gun and I don't even own an aluminum boat.
The ability to adjust EN and EP can make a smaller amp machine weld like it has more power, but mixing in a little helium gets the same result. I very rarely use pulse. Adjustable frequency is nice if you're welding a wide variety of aluminum projects.I hear ya... I totally know your pain... I'm always looking for that next "miracle tool" too.
Kinda tempted to majorly upgrade to a much high capacity welder with some fancier settings. Even my tig is one of the simpler setups... basically just aa power switch, a dial and an ac/dc switch.
I'm not an admin, just a lowly moderator, but I am impressed that this thread has lived this long and do think that alone should hold some weight with WHOEVER is pulling the strings these days...Boy, now its 2020, we should move the buzz into the new decade with a whitewater dories subforum! What do ya say admins?
I'm not an admin, just a lowly moderator, but I am impressed that this thread has lived this long and do think that alone should hold some weight with WHOEVER is pulling the strings these days...
Since we still don't have a Dory specific forum...
I'm definitely going to get a Johnson SPX bilge pump and have basically decided to get the 2200gph one... but part of me wants to get the 4000 gph version. It draws a lot more power and I'll need to do bigger tubing...but it also removes twice as much water too.
Anyone have any input on this one. The Chub by Eddyline Welding (a 14' Aluminum Dory), which I almost bought, uses the 2200...but I've seen some other guys use the 4k one (Mike Guryan's Wild Child for one).
Also...I'm planning on putting it in the captains bay under the foot pegs. It should be relatively easy to work to route the tubes from the front and back wells into it there and then put a tube to the side port.
Also... I've seen people say that a battery lasted an entire trip...but I'm not sure if that was topping it off with a solar charger or not. Any input on that aspect?
I just saw a video of what can happen when the boat gets loaded up with water...so a nice reliable bilge system sounds like a relatively necessary thing to have in big water when you only have one passenger or want to go solo.
The previous owner of Wesley modified the rear passenger well to hold a 140qt cooler. I'm a little worried about it being too heavy but I'll just have to make sure I don't go crazy with packing it. The PO said he really felt like the cooler displaced a lot of water and that he didn't have to bail nearly as much with that modification.After watching the video of Kelly munching the left wall in Crystal...
I woke up last night with a crazy idea.
Why do I have a passenger footwell when I don't want to spend 3 weeks with 4 other people? 4 passengers for a day run? Of course!
I'm thinking....how about a custom drybox that fits tightly and EXACTLY in the rear footwell. yes, water can get between the footwell and box, but on the order of a cup or two...definitely not gallons. Pull it out for day trips with rear guests. Install it for multidays and have another dry hatch that more importantly--KEEPS WATER OUT!
Insane? Genius? Both?
Yeah...I cringed too. I want to try to avoid that. I hit that wall in 2017 and nearly flipped my raft... if you take that left line you definitely have to haul ass right as soon as you get passed the hole. Another guy hit the wall that year and flipped...and we had a guy on my last trip who started celebrating too early despite me warning him to pull hard away and he ended up flipping and broke two of his oars (one spare got crushed by the wall and one of his primary oars broke when he flipped). The hole is scary...but that left wall really gets people since it comes after the meat and people let their guard down.I'm guessing the Crystal run on the GCPBA page, I cringed when I saw her hit the wall.. I actually cringed when I saw her entrance.
1.5" tubing to connect all the wells as well? I measured the holes in the footwells that currently connect everything and they are about an inch. I'd really rather not have to drill them out larger...but if I have to I guess I have to. I've talked with Mike Guryan a bit since has used both the 2200 and 4000 (one in the thing and one in the child...respectively) and says he has no regrets going with the bigger one and that it, fairly obviously, drains much faster then the 2200.Bears Ears has the SPX 2200 with 1.5 piping, I swamped her a couple times in Grand Canyon and she bailed completely empty in a little more than a minute, I didn't time it, but it wasn't long. That being said, it wasn't all the pump, I have scuppers in both passenger compartments, and a overflow drain about 1/2 way up in my footwell, I think these are key in helping the water drain. From my observations, the front and rear passenger compartments drained before my footwell, but they drain INTO a sump in the footwell, so...
I'd like to keep weight low too...but I kind of wonder if you really need that big a battery. He said he only charged it a few times during the trip, but mostly since it was an AGM battery and he didn't want to burn it out by letting it draw down too low. He didn't have a monitor on it, so he just topped it off every once in a while. He said he was the trips charging station too...so it got multiple uses.My friend Mike Guryan that built the only other copy of the "Bears Ears" class of boat (Wild Child) used the 4000, with 2 inch piping, and said it drained just fine, but you should see the battery he has to carry. I can't remember if he said he had to "top it up" or not. I had toyed with the idea of changing it out to the 4000, it wouldn't be hard, but I'm a weight nazi, and the group 24 (IIRC) battery it needs, (think car battery) is what caused me to keep what I have, which like I said, works fine.
I'm definitely modeling my system after the one Mike put together. I'm still debating about check valves and a few other things...but I do like having direct access to the pump.My boat holds a lot more water than yours, If it were me, I'd stay with the 2200.
The captain's footwell is the place for it to be, sitting in it's sump, easy to run the piping against the bulkheads, and should the pump become inundated with silt, you can wiggle it with your foot and get it pumping again. Look on the FB Whitewater Dories page, he's got some photos of his install, he did a super sweet job, actually the nicest I've seen.
You never actually said what capacity battery you use. Mike said his was a 55ah AGM that looks like its for a wheelchair or similar.Bears Ears has been down GC 3 times so far, 2 each 14 day trips to Diamond, and one 28 day to Pearce. The small battery lasted on the 14 day trips, but my power switch failed one night on the 28 day trip, let the pump suck the battery dry, good thing I had a spare battery, but no spare switch, tied the wires together in auto mode with a pair of hemostats, worked fine.
I carried a 10W solar charger which recharged the dead battery in about 3 days, one day was a layover, and I put the panel out at the end of the other 2 days. I now carry spare switches, a spare pump, and a 50W flexible solar panel in addition to the spare battery, which I primarily use for charging go pro batteries.
Wesley already has an outlet tube and it is basically just bellow the high point of the decks. Not sure you could get it any higher. At any rate...I don't think I want to get into the project of moving it higher if it can...so it'll have to work. I guess the check valve mostly depends on whether water can get back through the pump. If it does, I feel like that should be a relatively minimal amount when the pump doesn't need to be running.One thing I did note, when I bought the replacement pump, it said not to install a check valve. Bears Ears came with a check valve in the outlet, Mike G didn't put one in on his build, so I'm taking mine out this trip and will see if it increases the output without flooding my footwell and cycling the pump all the time.
My outlet tube, like Mike's is as high up the side as you can get it, so I'm thinking the check valve is redundant. I'm hoping so anyway.
To be clear...when I said solo I meant in the boat by myself with other people in boats with me...not completely solo.And as an aside, you mention running solo. I'd do this in my little 14 foot Canonita Dory Ashkii, but Bears Ears is another matter entirely. I loaded up her hatches with water jugs to simulate a moderate load, and took her to the local lake, after a LOT of trying I got her flipped over, and was unable to flip her back, a "Z" drag off my trailer at the ramp and 2 anchors out into the lake did the trick, but on the river I need at least one more person to get her flipped back over, something to think about.
It certainly does... I like hearing different perspectives on stuff.Hope this helps
1.5" tubing to connect all the wells as well? I measured the holes in the footwells that currently connect everything and they are about an inch. I'd really rather not have to drill them out larger...but if I have to I guess I have to. I've talked with Mike Guryan a bit since has used both the 2200 and 4000 (one in the thing and one in the child...respectively) and says he has no regrets going with the bigger one and that it, fairly obviously, drains much faster then the 2200.
I've seen people say that you would probably get away with just drilling a big hole in the bottom of the boat with a scupper to minimize water getting back in...but that makes me nervous for sure.
He said he was the trips charging station too...so it got multiple uses.
You never actually said what capacity battery you use. Mike said his was a 55ah AGM that looks like its for a wheelchair or similar.
To be clear...when I said solo I meant in the boat by myself with other people in boats with me...not completely solo.
The previous owner of Wesley modified the rear passenger well to hold a 140qt cooler. I'm a little worried about it being too heavy but I'll just have to make sure I don't go crazy with packing it. The PO said he really felt like the cooler displaced a lot of water and that he didn't have to bail nearly as much with that modification.
I do like your idea of a custom fit dry box. With that much dry cargo space...there is the same worry of weight that far back in the boat...but again...you'd just have to load the dry box accordingly. I know the two main cross hatches on my boat sure seem vast and cavernous...but I imagine they'll fill up faster then I think and having that extra dry storage.
If you weren't worried about cargo space... it would be kinda cool to get a custom made float bag to do something similar. All of the benefit of way less water in the boat and only minimal weight to do it.
I've thought about putting scuppers in, but getting those right is hard and at the end of the day I'd rather just bilge it out. There are holes to drain the seats though...so those should help reduce water in the boat a bit quicker.
Seems that you'll spend about $2/aH for batteries. The 35ah wheelchair batteries seem reasonably priced for their size. Lithiums are crazy expensive (but awesome for power density) unless you can get a deal on the Leaf cells.I think my bottle neck at the moment will be tubing size. Mike made a good point when he said just try the 2200 and if it feels like its no up to the task upgrade. I've actually been thinking about using Nissan Leaf lithium cells for this. They are 7.6 volts each and easy to put in series to up the voltage to 14volts.
I'm definitely modeling my system after the one Mike put together. I'm still debating about check valves and a few other things...but I do like having direct access to the pump.
I'm not keen on having to repair my boat...but I also like to hit the meat and want to do cool tailstands!!I haven't even gotten it on the water yet...but I feel like it would be good to have any idea of what it will take to reflip it. I'm not typically one to hold back and take the conservative line... I usually have to warn people that I usually aim for the meat and I don't plan on changing that with a Dory. I do plan on having at least one passenger with me on most trips in this boat...but having the option to go Solo and not have to worry about bailing will be nice.
It certainly does... I like hearing different perspectives on stuff.
After a month of thinking about it and hearing from people with their experience...I ordered a 2200 earlier. I think between a combo of pumping/bucket bailing and the bilge system... that should be plenty. The rear passenger well will be filled with a large cooler...so the main worry is the front passenger well.