Any advice on sure bet solutions for winterizing boating hands - best protection ?
dalaba
pogies - not even a choice. Make sure to get the neoprene ones and not the ones like the Stolquist yellowjackets. I like stolquist gear, but the neoprene ones are wayyyy warmer. If you're getting into creeking start paddling with them religiously, even playboating so they wont play with your head when you're in the shit.
I can't get pogies to do the trick. They let in too much water. You can't get a good seal on your wrist.
I think neoprene gloves are the way to go. You can seal them tight over your drytop gasket and your hands stay dry. I use 2mm gloves, but some times I wish I had 3mm gloves.
3mm gloves are a bit thick. Perhaps 2mm gloves with pogies will keep you hands warm and dry.
I think neoprene gloves are the way to go. You can seal them tight over your drytop gasket and your hands stay dry. I use 2mm gloves, but some times I wish I had 3mm gloves.
3mm gloves are a bit thick. Perhaps 2mm gloves with pogies will keep you hands warm and dry.
You can get neoprene gloves for less than $10 at a sporting goods store or the Retail Antichirst (Wal-Mart).
I have a bitchen pair of pogies from the ir website that are made of closed cell foam covered with drytop material (maybe pvc?)...they actually have latex gaskets at the wrist...loose ones, so you can still get your hand in and out (not very easily, though, I don't recommend for creakin). some water still gets in, but not very much and they are very toasty. trouble is, they don't make them anymore. I got them from the part of the website they used to have marked "R&D". I emailed them to see why they don't offer them and they said it's because they cost about $90 to make and they were only selling them for $45...they didn't think they were marketable at a higher price (and they're probably right). Anyway, if you wanted to email them and see if they have a pair laying around they might sell them to you.
Years ago on Westwater in February, I used expedition weight Capilene gloves and put a pair of latex dishwashing gloves over them. Tuck those into your latex drytop sleeves (Maybe even slap some duct tape around the seam) and fasten the neoprene cuff tight over that. My hands were dry all day, and really didn't get that chilly. Very cheap alternative, fine for occasional use, but things could get cold if they ripped. Might be better to get the tile setting gloves they have at Home Depot. Downside: bright yellow hands. Upside: They're ribbed....'for your pleasure'. :wink:
Otherwise, those Toaster gloves that NRS sells get rave reviews in the NW. http://nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2447&deptid=944
Otherwise, those Toaster gloves that NRS sells get rave reviews in the NW. http://nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2447&deptid=944
I've been using the regular, fingered NRS gloves, but my hands get cold. I've been talking to guys in the eddy at the local playspot and they are raving about the NRS Toaster Mitts (http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2447&deptid=944)
They say they are super warm and yet retain the dexterity of a fingered glove.
I can't stand pogies. Yes, they are warm but to use your hand for anything other than holding the paddle, you need to take them out and expose them to the cold air. Plus, all the pogies I've used before were a pain in the ass to get your other hand into.
I'm going to give the Toaster Mitts a try.
Bong
They say they are super warm and yet retain the dexterity of a fingered glove.
I can't stand pogies. Yes, they are warm but to use your hand for anything other than holding the paddle, you need to take them out and expose them to the cold air. Plus, all the pogies I've used before were a pain in the ass to get your other hand into.
I'm going to give the Toaster Mitts a try.
Bong
Bong-
Have you tried Creek Mitts? Wildwasser makes a good pair, I think they're pretty warm, and the openings are held open by a wire - so it's really easy to get your hands in and out, even while creeking.
Have you tried Creek Mitts? Wildwasser makes a good pair, I think they're pretty warm, and the openings are held open by a wire - so it's really easy to get your hands in and out, even while creeking.
pogies are not ment to keep your hands dry or sealed off from the river as one poster seemed to think they were. They are, however, way warmer than gloves without question. You want to be able to get in and out of them easily, especially if you're expecting to creek with them. Make sure to use them a ton, even when you don't need them, because when you do need them (freezing creeks) you definitely don't want to be unsure of youself with them. I agree that your hands freeze when you're out scouting rapids or holding rocks for long periods of time in an eddy and have no answer to that. Generally if the air temp is cold also, I have gloves and a hat in my boat in case I have to hike out.
Pogies and dishwashing gloves are what I use.
Cheap old pogies with cheap latex gloves do it for the kayaking part, with some protection when pulling a hand out of pogies to wipe off glasses, drink water, or during a swim. Same potential problem as person using dishwahsing gloves over other gloves, though: If there's a problem on the river and you have to tug at something (rope, branches) it could tear and then your hands wouldn't be much use in a matter of a minute.
Cheap old pogies with cheap latex gloves do it for the kayaking part, with some protection when pulling a hand out of pogies to wipe off glasses, drink water, or during a swim. Same potential problem as person using dishwahsing gloves over other gloves, though: If there's a problem on the river and you have to tug at something (rope, branches) it could tear and then your hands wouldn't be much use in a matter of a minute.
As a window cleaner I've found 3mm Glacier Gloves to be the best. They have them at most millitary surplus stores for about $30.
If pogies don't keep your hands dry, how can they keep them warm? Cold water is worse than cold air.
I guess if you are doing easy water, you only get splash from the front of your boat which won't enter the wrist. But any other type of river will send water in the wrist.
When I tried pogies, water splashed in every 15-30 seconds. As soon as my hands started getting warm, more cold water came in on the wrist.
I guess if you are doing easy water, you only get splash from the front of your boat which won't enter the wrist. But any other type of river will send water in the wrist.
When I tried pogies, water splashed in every 15-30 seconds. As soon as my hands started getting warm, more cold water came in on the wrist.
The choice to use gloves or (pogies) is like flavors of...
ice cream. everyone has their favorites, but it comes down to personal preference.
If you want full time protection even when your hands are off the paddle and you don't mind the interference with your grip, of the glove then gloves are for you.
If you need the secure feel of your bare hand on the paddle shaft then (Pogies) are your best bet.
It also comes down to the gloves or (Pogies) you select.
Traditional nylon (pogies) with long gauntlets tend to be difficult to get into and the linings used to add insulation tend to absorb a great deal of water and weight.
Creek Mitts are a mountain Surf brand of Easy On Easy Off neoprene (Pogies) and some people seem to be using the name as a new generic term for (Pogies). They pretty much eliminate the difficulty in getting in or out of them but give up something in warmth.
Oven Mitts, our new much warmer version of the Creek mitt have a longer gauntlet and pile inner laminate for better insulation. The non absorptive outer laminate pretty much elminates evaporative cooling. These puppies are as warm as it gets and are very easy to get in and out of.
Seals at the wrists and paddle shaft on (Pogies) cause difficulty in changing your grip on the shaft and make getting in and then out of them incongruous. It seemed like a good idea until we tried it.
I hope that this helps
John Mason
Mountain Surf
ice cream. everyone has their favorites, but it comes down to personal preference.
If you want full time protection even when your hands are off the paddle and you don't mind the interference with your grip, of the glove then gloves are for you.
If you need the secure feel of your bare hand on the paddle shaft then (Pogies) are your best bet.
It also comes down to the gloves or (Pogies) you select.
Traditional nylon (pogies) with long gauntlets tend to be difficult to get into and the linings used to add insulation tend to absorb a great deal of water and weight.
Creek Mitts are a mountain Surf brand of Easy On Easy Off neoprene (Pogies) and some people seem to be using the name as a new generic term for (Pogies). They pretty much eliminate the difficulty in getting in or out of them but give up something in warmth.
Oven Mitts, our new much warmer version of the Creek mitt have a longer gauntlet and pile inner laminate for better insulation. The non absorptive outer laminate pretty much elminates evaporative cooling. These puppies are as warm as it gets and are very easy to get in and out of.
Seals at the wrists and paddle shaft on (Pogies) cause difficulty in changing your grip on the shaft and make getting in and then out of them incongruous. It seemed like a good idea until we tried it.
I hope that this helps
John Mason
Mountain Surf
the neoprene pogies work the same as a neoprene wetsuit or your neoprene booties. They all allow water into the fabric and then trap it there. Initially this is very cold, but your body will warm the water and the neoprene keeps the same water inside all day. This is why wetsuits are better at insulting and keeping you warm when they are wet. They are only a few mm thick when dry, but much thicker and warmer when wet and warmed with your body heat. Same deal with the pogies - get them wet, allow you hands to warm them and they'll keep you warm all day even though you're wet. In my experience with creeking there is no choice between gloves and pogies. the pogies are way warmer and allow better hand-shaft contact for your pleasure.
The problem with pogies, and it can be a serious one, is that if you take your hands out and submerge them in really cold water, they become pretty useless in a relatively short length of time. Fingered gloves just aren't warm enough. Mittens are comparable to pogies in warmth but you lose a lot of fine motor finger dexterity because your fingers are encased. I was out boating with a pair of the NRS mittens and had to remove one glove just to wipe fog from my glasses....a major hassle.
Enter....the mitten modification. Hunters you mittens with this modification all the time because they also know that mittens are the warmest form of glove. Simply by slicing an opening across the palm of the glove right at the base of the fingers you can remove any number (up to four of course!) of fingers from the glove and effortlessly return them to the warmth of the glove. Since the slit is always against the paddle shaft almost no extra water enters the glove. Even when submerged my hands stayed warm and any water that does enter quickly drains. IMHO it 's the best of both worlds between pogies and gloves. I could easily use my fingers for such mundane chores as putting on my skirt, clipping in items and the all important relieving myself all without removing my NRS Toaster Mitts. Below is a link to pics of the modification.
Miguel
http://pub3.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?usernum=180567192&album=36355
Enter....the mitten modification. Hunters you mittens with this modification all the time because they also know that mittens are the warmest form of glove. Simply by slicing an opening across the palm of the glove right at the base of the fingers you can remove any number (up to four of course!) of fingers from the glove and effortlessly return them to the warmth of the glove. Since the slit is always against the paddle shaft almost no extra water enters the glove. Even when submerged my hands stayed warm and any water that does enter quickly drains. IMHO it 's the best of both worlds between pogies and gloves. I could easily use my fingers for such mundane chores as putting on my skirt, clipping in items and the all important relieving myself all without removing my NRS Toaster Mitts. Below is a link to pics of the modification.
Miguel
http://pub3.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?usernum=180567192&album=36355
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