[zipkruse]

I think it was upper cherry....

I think you're right. Upper Cherry Creek is one of those super-extreme runs with drops likely never to be run in a raft. (I simply doubt it'd be possible to stay in the thing on some of the massive hits and ski jumps at that speed.)

Kayakers are now doing things which were unimaginable only a few years ago - the way base jumpers are wingsuit proximity flying slopes. The courage, creativity, and risk are all just off the charts.

 

[Electric-Mayhem]

Its my understanding that Upper Cherry Creek (with Cherry Bomb falls and all the slides and stuff) has a 12 mile or something hike over the top of a high mountain pass to get to the put in. Seems like it would be quite the task to get an inflatable in there not to mention it being an extremely stout run. Most take a day to hike in but Dane Jackson and some of his crew do it in a day (leaving at 3am or something)...

West Cherry looks pretty amazing but scary too...

Pretty epic and commiting once you start down. There is a video of Russ Sturges, one of the best kayakers in the world, swimming out of the "run out" of Cherry Bomb falls after breaking his paddle and having to hand paddle a couple of the drops ... pretty epic...

As for the Russel Fork.... is that commercially rafted or just private boaters in small rafts? Plenty of super gnarly runs that private rafters do that no commercial company would touch.

 

[zipkruse]

The skill, athleticism, and courage of these guys is as extreme as any adventure sport on the planet right now, maybe exceeded only by Alex Honnold free-soloing big walls. I don't know that I've ever seen anything on video harder and more dangerous than these runs. These aren't just big waterfalls to drop. There's tremendous skill involved here. Amazing stuff.

 

[Electric-Mayhem]

Absolutely... I'll never do most of the runs they do or anything even approaching their difficulty but I do enjoy watching his videos plus guys like Bren Orton, Ben Marr, Serrasoles Brothers and others. Its just amazing how easy they make all these super stout runs look...it almost makes you think you could join in. I kayaked for a long time...and I've seen videos of them running a few of the runs I used to be quaking in booties over and white knuckling the whole time...and they treat those runs like Class IV play runs.

I think another cool thing is that Dane often shares when he's not feeling an especially stout rapid and walks around it. Its nice to show that he has respect for pushing limits and doesn't need to constantly be testing the edge of them. I've never met the guy but by all accounts I've heard Dane does it with class and is a genuinely friendly and nice guy too and isn't above helping us punters when needed. I think this video really shows that...

Helps the dude out a ton... and not just any boater could make that line... a ton of skill and precision.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Go pro has taken the "edge" off all this stuff. You see it and it seems like it's just fun...but standing there looking at it is very different! I saw a cool video of a Zambezi commercial where the tourist just happened to catch Dane and his crew coming through from shore. That perspective was WAY different and ill never do the Zambezi with Dane even if he begs me too! I think I need a internet intervention. I almost watch now more than I do and thats wrong! Running my first run this season today with a kind hearted buzz member hopefully it's un eventful lol!! I'll wear my go pro for a "what not to do" tutorial lol. Good news is it's class3 . You class v guys be smart , be focused and stay safe!!!

 

[Aerocam]

Depends on what gnarly means to you. I did the Zambezi, was very fun. Lots of very big rapids, but it's a high volume pool and drop river like the GC, so IMO not gnarly in the consequences you face if you have a swimmer, compared to Cherry Creek and others.

Crocodiles could be considered consequences.......

 

[Pinchecharlie]

There's crocodiles in that shite? That's not good...

 

[MNichols]

and all manner of poisonous things that drop out of trees into your boat LOL

 

[sflanagan2]

I’m just basing my opinion off of what I’ve ran before. My experience: R2 Cherry and R2/R6 (Gore Race) Gore.
1- Cherry Creek
2- Gore Canyon

There is a section of whitewater that isn’t ran commercially but at medium to high flows it rivals Cherry and Gore. The section is called the Pigeon Dries in NC/TN and it has a few steep and dangerous rapids in it.

 

[zcollier]

Generally when rafters refer to "Cherry Creek,: it's a section of the Upper Tuolumne River below the confluence of Cherry Creek and the main stem of the Tuolumne River. In my mind it's the gold standard of Class V California boating.

"Upper Cherry Creek" is way upstream on Cherry Creek and a hike in trip that kayakers do. It's been done a few times in rafts but is more of a kayak run.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Thanks Zach! You ever do the "upper " ?? I did my first class 4 today and basically a stretch that was right at the very edge of my skill set and crushed it!! Gotta give you and your guys and girls credit. I used every single thing I was taught and it works! (Was scared though) so next is anxiety training lol! Nope not going on any of these runs ! Nope!

 

[zcollier]

Thanks Zach! You ever do the "upper " ?? I did my first class 4 today and basically a stretch that was right at the very edge of my skill set and crushed it!! Gotta give you and your guys and girls credit. I used every single thing I was taught and it works! (Was scared though) so next is anxiety training lol! Nope not going on any of these runs ! Nope!

No I've never done Upper Cherry. It's wonderful to hear the things we teach helped you!

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Last post! Where does the little white salmon rank among these runs? I know its not a commercial trip but I can't help but watch guys run it. Thanks all for a great thread

 

[zcollier]

Last post! Where does the little white salmon rank among these runs? I know its not a commercial trip but I can't help but watch guys run it. Thanks all for a great thread

The Little White is harder than the runs described above. There are MANY runs harder than Cherry Creek and Gore that are not done commercially.

 

[Electric-Mayhem]

Yeah...tons and tons and tons of runs harder then anything that is run commercially. Just watch 90% of the videos from Dane, Serrosoles Brothers, Ben Marr, and a ton of other kayakers. Rafting wise...some guys like Tony Glassman and his crew pushing rafting limits too. Some guys running the silly "self righting" rafts that I won't name that seem to like getting in over their heads too.

 

[LZMJRAFT]

I think the Futaleufu is one of the most difficult due to the volume and the length of the run. My 16 ft cat was one of the smaller boats on the river although one guy in our group ran it in a 12 ft Hyside. But swims were friendly and there were lots of commercial groups. That was the biggest difference from chutes and ladder local runs like Tumwater or Golden Canyon.

 

[MNichols]

Futaleufu

You do that again and you're gonna clean it up young man!

 

[mukunig]

I agree with those who say Cherry Creek is the most difficult commercial raft run anywhere. I've only run it once or twice, and it definitely has clean lines, but it is steep and challenging. I've never run Gore but friends who have agree that it is dangerous but not quite as hard. They are probably 1 and 2.

I guided the Zambezi for many seasons, and it is huge and much more challenging than the Colorado in the Grand Canyon, but it doesn't require the technical skill of those steep technical runs like Cherry Creek (Along the Zambezi there are very few trees in the gorge, so nothing drops into your raft. The crocodiles are only a concern on the 7-day trips as there aren't big ones on the day stretch. Hippos in the flat water on the week-long trip can be terrifying but there are very few encounters with them).

I also guided a few Futaleufu trips and it is unique for its combination of power and technical lines, but I don't feel it is as hard as the steep, narrow, rocky CA runs. However, if you've only done low water technical rivers, it is intimidating. I've guided the Apurimac in Peru, and the rapid Dolor de Muelles is super challenging, but most trips portage it now. I haven't run the Cotahuasi, but friends who do say it is difficult but not crazy.

I have guided the Forks of the Kern a lot, and it is a beautiful and challenging run with over 80 mostly Class IV and above rapids in 18 miles, but nothing on it is as hard as Cherry Creek. It is my favorite run in CA for beauty, solitude, side canyon waterfalls, granite spires, and fun challenging whitewater. We ran fully loaded gear rafts down it, which you would not want to do on something harder like the Creek. I did one commercial run where the water rose 1,100 cfs above our high water cut-off while we were on the river, and it was terrifying just because if you had a swimmer there was no way you would ever catch them as the whole river was one raging wave train with huge holes for 18 miles. Luckily no one swam. I would not do that again though.

I agree with Barry about Burnt Ranch Gorge and other CA runs not being as tough as the Creek. I got to guide a crew of excellent guides on a read and run down Giant Gap, which was super fun, but again not as hard as the Creek.

 

[zipkruse]

Great resume of rivers! And great assessment.

 

[mukunig]

Thanks! Like you, I've had the great fortune to experience some amazing rivers in my life. Our lives have crossed paths - I worked for Whitewater Voyages in CA on and off in the 80's and 90's. I'm thrilled to see you with Junior Guides and that that program is continuing. Spencer and Sarah were friends at Voyages... Thanks for continuing that program!