6 mile creek in Hope, AK is pretty epic.

 

The Shotover in NZ. You go though a freakin old mining tunnel in the dark at the end! Queenstown Whitewater Rafting | Adventure |Things to do|Go Orange NZ

 

Thought stateside it was Cherry Creek, CA - but 6 mile does look saweet

 

Depends how you're defining "gnarly." In terms of difficulty and technicality, I do think most people believe it to be Cherry Creek.

 

This question depends a great deal on flow and volume. Anything can be exceedingly gnarly if it's high.

I've guided a fair number of the marquee class V commercial runs in the US, and of those, Cherry Creek is the most technical and potentially dangerous by a longshot. Rapids and long, require a lot of maneuvering, and would be terrible swims if out of the boat; at least one drop (a portage) being potentially fatal.

Video I've seen of 6-Mile Creek makes it look fantastic! But nowhere near the challenge of other runs.

PFDIVA (great name): The Shotover is class IV. It's awesome and has it's own challenges. But it's not that difficult at normal flows. (I guided there.)

Internationally, I'd have to think the Zambezi (I've not run it), and the Futaleufu (I've run it) would be great challengers.

Here's a short video of a private trip on Cherry Creek last year. This is five minutes of about 90 minutes of whitewater footage I captured. Remember; everything is flatter on video.

 

It was the dark tunnel....whoa!

 

Cherry creek have alot of swim hazards (sieves and undercuts )?

 

Zipkruse!!!! SALTY DAWG!! Your my new hero! Dang! Holly crap! Can I come on a trip with you please!?

 

I love paddling with new friends. If you're out in California. message me.

 

If you ask the guides in Colorado they’d tell you Shoshone.

 

The Wind River in Washington, if they even offer it commercially anymore.

 

The video I've seen of the Wind make it look amazing, and it might just vie for the top spot. I'd love to run it.
There are a couple of rivers we're no longer running commercially in California, as well; Giant Gap is my favorite, though not as hard as The Creek. But I'm running it again tomorrow!

 

Holy Shitballs! Zipkruse! You're my new hero as well. Cherry Creek is for real. That video is great. I added that song to my spotify.

It's not as long, and rarely guided, but I thought that Burnt Ranch Gorge on the Trinity is pretty nuts. I've seen some Bigfoot paddle rafts R4 through there

 

Holy Shitballs! Zipkruse! You're my new hero as well. Cherry Creek is for real. That video is great. I added that song to my spotify.

It's not as long, and rarely guided, but I thought that Burnt Ranch Gorge on the Trinity is pretty nuts. I've seen some Bigfoot paddle rafts R4 through there

Really flattered by that! Thanks for watching!

I guided BRG commercially a lot back in the 90's, and I frigging love it. Haven't been on it in years, but planning to this summer. I miss the place.

In truth, we used to say it was largely class IV with class VI consequences. We would always do a short portage at Middle BRG Falls; that slot on the right is diabolical; too narrow and kills all your momentum for a wicked hole - which has appeared on all kinds of ridiculous reality TV for "World's Deadliest" or whatever.

I'll be bringing the Sunset Cruiser up this summer sometime.

 

I would nominate the Franklin in Tasmania. I haven't run it but would like to.

 

Oh your poor kids!!! Lol! I was raised by a poet...not the same! Dude you are in control or what!!! Make that boat sing a song. Stoked to watch!! So iam guessing that you guys are very seasonal for runnable flows? Trying to plan my holiday!

 

The Gauley River, WVa kicked our A when we got in a huge hole, traveled up the wave, paused, and slid back down 5 feet until the boat shot straight into the air like a missile.

 

The Gauley is an amazing run... and an incredible scene! World class, not to be missed for boaters. I guided a short season out there in about 2000. Super fun.

 

Ok...so I've watched you tube of all the rivers mentioned...iam cured of thinking iam a cool kid. Now I have one serious question? how do you swim in that shite if and when it goes bad? I mean it never looks to have a eddy or anything or where to go...gotta have flips now and again!? Just mandatory to somehow stay with your boat?!? Yikes you guys are on a wholenother level!

 

If you run gnarly whitewater, there are just two kinds of guides: Those who have flipped, and those who will flip.

You're right on this: You should not run what you aren't prepared to swim. I certainly have my limits - especially now that I am 56 and not the boater I used to be. But I'm trying to get after it in the sunset years of my boating life before I retire to class IV a bit.

I have flipped... but not more than 50-ish times and really badly at times.

I've always joked that I want to be a great rafting guide because I am a terrible swimmer.

 

Gore Canyon in Colorado offers some adrenaline rushes. AVA or Timberline offer commercial trips. How You Know You're Ready for Gore Canyon

 

Gore Canyon in Colorado offers some adrenaline rushes. AVA or Timberline offer commercial trips. How You Know You're Ready for Gore Canyon

Gore looks really hard. I haven't run it, but it definitely looks pretty gnarly.

 

Hey zipkruse, how many years have you done class v rivers? Do you feel "at ease" in them now or is it still scary? Lol. Is the only way a guy ends up doing those runs was because he was a young man who just happened to worked for an outfitter for a "summer" before he knew how dangerous it really was? Lol ! Iam honestly asking cause you are so steady and calm like its just "normal " I get super nervous lol. Dude says ,"run a mile then swim ten laps and you can think about running gore canyon." Well... guess iam out! Pretty damn good at it . Inspiring!!

 

First, let me say: There are many, many boaters who are better than I am. I really appreciate the kind compliments.

I can't say I ever feel at ease running class V, and that's the thrill.

But my class V start was a little ridiculous, to be honest. Me and a pal bought a very, very early SOTAR. We were 20, had a couple of other guys dumb enough to paddle with us (ignorance is bliss), we were young and strong, and we just went for it. We started running anything class V that we could find in Californa that had flow. And that is a lot. We had a great choice of runs - including about a half-dozen first raft descents. So we got good very quickly out of sheer survival. In total over the last 35 years, I've probably run class V off and on for a dozen years or so; some years, very intensely. Some summers we'd go down and run Cherry Creek in straight paddle boats - R5 like 6-10 times. You get pretty good that way, and you learn a lot. I've never flipped on Cherry Creek; many other places.

Subsquently, I went to work guiding for a couple of companies that specialized in class V. So I got a lot of days; maybe 500 guiding class V in various ways.

No way I could swim ten laps in a pool, and I admire those who can. So I am taking some risk. I've been on rivers four times when people have been killed; I've seen it happen first hand, and done CPR in one case, so I know the consequences.

But I do love this game; the places, the action, the scenery, the thrill, and maybe mostly the camaraderie.

I do appreciate your thoughts. I'd love for you to check out my podcast, Leading Steep. I've interviewed some amazing guides there. Thanks!

 

Gore is definitely right up there. I haven't run Cherry Creek, but I'd put parts of Gore up with some of the stuff I saw in Zip's video. Less high sides and running up into big rocks...but plenty of moves you gotta make and bad consequences if you swim. A lot of them are pool drop, but there is a section from Gore rapid down through Pyrite and Scissors that is swift and getting safety setup in advance would be the only way to get someone out of the water quickly. A lot of the rapids are either created by or made more dangerous by the debris formed from building the railroad. I'm not talking about metal and such necessarily, but more sharp rocks and odd and unatural rock placements.

Based on the video I'd say Cherry Creek still wins but Gore isn't far off. People like to toss the Gauley out a lot...but based on peoples behavior and willingness to do irresponsible things in "Class V rapids" I've seen on Youtube videos... it doesn't seem to hold up to either Gore or Cherry Creek or some other places around the world. I've had a few people I've met who ran as a customer tell me that they ran "the hardest commercially run section of whitewater" on a Gauley trip... but I kind of get the feeling that is as much a sales technique or way to increase the guides tips then it really being true. Definitely some big water...but definitely harder stuff being run commercially too.

 

I've run the Gauley several times and agree with your sentiments. The gauley is fun and has real hazards (Sieves etc) but for the most part its a big highway if you know what you're doing. There are certainly places to crash and burn, but I don't think it comes close to gore or cherry creek. To be honest, I think the Cheoah in NC is much more difficult to run (commercially) than the Gauley any day. Obviously there are harder rivers out there, but as far as commercial goes, I think the Cheoah would be up there in the southeast. It's not the most difficult but I would certainly rank it above the Gauley.

I suppose it's all a matter of perspective and what people are used to running. I'm with the OP in that I love lower volume, technical, "creeky" river feels. I am a kayaker at heart so maybe thats why, but guided commercially 12 years as well. Awesome videos!

 

Mayhem, I'd agree with your sentiment 100% in all regards. Great assessment. My high-sides on Cherry Creek were sometimes planned, sometimes not. Better guides run it more smoothly than I do.

Gore looks very continuous and very serious. And at this level in the game, it matters little which is the gnarliest; all class V by its nature can kill you. The video I've seen of Gore shows really sharp rock, inopportune placements, and complicated channels. The rock in California seems younger, smoother, maybe more channelized.

Further, I'm entirely with you on the Gauley. I mentioned I guided there. The rapids were big, fun, and dramatic. And it's hard to take it too seriously when they've got 8-loads and they're clowning so much. Not judging; just saying. You would not run those bigass boats or clown around on Cherry Creek or Gore.

 

Mayhem, I'd agree with your sentiment 100% in all regards. Great assessment. My high-sides on Cherry Creek were sometimes planned, sometimes not. Better guides run it more smoothly than I do.

Gore looks very continuous and very serious. And at this level in the game, it matters little which is the gnarliest; all class V by its nature can kill you. The video I've seen of Gore shows really sharp rock, inopportune placements, and complicated channels. The rock in California seems younger, smoother, maybe more channelized.

Further, I'm entirely with you on the Gauley. I mentioned I guided there. The rapids were big, fun, and dramatic. And it's hard to take it too seriously when they've got 8-loads and they're clowning so much. Not judging; just saying. You would not run those bigass boats or clown around on Cherry Creek or Gore.

I think one more major difference is maybe the length and accesibility of Gore canyon too. Its not a town run, but its within an hour of a few different runs and is relatively short. There is a hour or two of flatewater leading up to it, but the main rapids could probably be run in hour with scouting and stopping for safety. The Gore Race winners do it in 20-30 minutes and the race starts above the first hard rapid and ends at the bottom of the last one. A little bit of Class II/III run out from there...but overall a fairly quick trip. It doesn't have a road following it...but the railroad is there. I get the impression that Cherry Creek is at least a little bit more remote and hard to get out of if something were to happen.

I definitely wanna get out and run some California rivers some time. I have some friends that run the Tuolumne fairly often and speak glowingly of it. I did a trip out there in my early twenties (I'm 40 now) with the CU Kayak Club but we mostly stuck to class III stuff. We did one run that I would classify as Class IV with a couple of Class IV+ or V- that I think might be the Chamberlain Falls section of hte North Fork American but I'm not 100% sure. It was near Auburn and we took out next to a big bridge at the bottom of a deep gorge. I feel like we did a loop up towards Redding one of the years and did some northern Cali stuff and another year did some stuff around the Merced but it was distinctly Class III/IV- and I can't find a real section of the Merced that fits the description of what I recall...so who knows. I know we were near Yosemite but didn't boat inside the park though.

 

Gnarly? Big rocks gnarly, or big hydraulics gnarly? Higher flows Lochsa, especially the upper section. Castle Creek rapid gets my attention. Not sure they run the upper section commercially at high flows. And maybe high flows Selway. Haven't done Cherry Creek so my thoughts are from just video's that I have seen. But, I have to say nothing gets my adrenaline pumping like riding the high volume dragon, fast strong current, the feeling that the current is going to over power you: big towering rolling waves, big domer holes. Banging from rock to rock seems like a chore and not as fun. Late May Cataract is all the fun I need. Guess I'm just a high flow fan. Where ever your boating, don't suck and Happy Boating!

 

I like your thinking. To each his own. I love the technical runs, and genuinely haven't spent much time on big volume, lower gradient sections. I ran the Futaleufu, and that pretty well combines the two.
Whatever you're doing, have fun!!

 

As a newer guy with only class 3 experience its hard not to dream about getting good enough to do the rivers you guys do! But ill tell ya I think it sucks when a guy dies having fun. I used to surf big waves and saw it and I used to hang glide and saw it. Not what I wanna do with a family lol. You know what I wish? I wish class 4and 5 was just bigger versions of 3. Not undercuts and sieves and no way to get out and dying. Have a friend thats our ageish (54) who still base jumps. Seems like such a bad idea. Sure is fun to watch you guys videos though! I'd say you are a really good editor too! Be careful and keep those videos coming iam a subscriber! Thanks everyone!!!

 

Agree, Charlie; I'm not in it to die, and certainly have to balance risk and reward.

Just ran Giant Gap again yesterday, and it was a tough, but wonderful day that I won't soon forget. (Video soon.)

One thing to remember, too: You can often walk the ugliest rapids on many runs. It's not always practical (it'd be impossible to walk all the hard stuff on Cherry Creek). But I never diss anyone for simply not 'feelin' it' on a particular day. I think that intuition is very important. We've all walked stuff.

Happy boating, and have fun!

 

Just saw your kids guide camps!!!! So awesome!! Gotta get my little one out there!!

 

I met Barry at Junior Guides in Coloma, CA about 8 years ago when our kids were in it early. His family is fantastic all around (Barry - I'm sad we never got to play some old-man baseball together - let's bring out a glove/ball next time!).

Junior Guides is still going strong - it has now led to my two oldest daughters being on the U19 USRA women's team. We still hit the South Fork a lot for weekend trips and their practice session. My son has also become a decent kayaker. Best thing in the world I ever did was get down there to Coloma and get the whole family into whitewater those years.

I'd highly recommend Barry's podcast Leading Steep - it's so well done and teaches you lessons in life and business from a fantastic speaker/leader/guide's perspective.

 

Thanks so much, Deagol! Grateful they're seen.

 

If you as tourist decide to run cherry creek, do not read the "incident" reports! Do you get life insurance when you sign up? Yikes