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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a older recretec breakdown frame and once again being vertically challenged I need something smaller. I made a plate to "scootch" seat forward (seat mount is fixed ) but it sucks. Thought about having stuff re welded but iam in the "want mode" and just looking around to see. I emailed madcatr but unfortunately he's not taking work . His set up is awesome. so...anyone else know a dude making class 5 cat frames? Disclaimer-iam not a class 5 boater lol. I just want a bad arse set up and figure i can re sale it when I get to old . Which will be soon. I don't think I care about break down frames for this. Iam the guy who's truck you borrow and you try to climb in and cant cause the seats where your 10 year old son left it (assuming he's 5'2") iam in bozeman mt but know ill have to ship or travel so it isn't to important but closers allways better. Aiming for light strong, simple and functional . Thanks
 

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I know you said welded; but, you might check out whitewatermachine.Madcatr would have been first choice.Someone recently posted about ClassFive frames that looked good.
 

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Jesse at Class V gear makes an awesome frame. We are in northern Utah. I have a couple friends who have frames for a 14ft cat and a 12 ft cat. My daughter just ordered a Middle Fork Frame last week. He is out a few weeks, but not bad for custom work... He will custom size the bay for you. He made the bay, 2" longer for a tall friend and asked for inseam for sizing for my daughter so he could make adjustments. Check out his web site. We use the Middle Fork Frame for multi day trips, but the smaller North Fork frame is awesome for day trips on 12 ft tubes.

Give him a call or send him an email. Jesse is very friendly and easy to work with... Just make sure he finishes our frames first!

Class V Adventure Gear ~ THE PROOF IS IN THE PUT-IN!
 

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My buddy Jeff got a sweet one from Headquarters Marine in Vancouver WA.

Has a tunnel frame, canted foot bar, scout bars, folding oarlock towers, and similar features common to the better white water cat frame designs
 

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Have a welder starting tomorrow on a sub 30 lb cat frame. Will have foldable towers, tunnel frame, foot bar and scout bars. Weight is with oar towers but no seat.
The prototype is 39 lbs but steel. Thanks to all my river buddies that left their aluminum beer cans in my van!

Frame, tubes and straps will be under 75 lbs. I'm old, with bad knees and like to do runs that have difficult access, so ulta light is my goal. Will be doing structural testing on Lower Clear Creek in a couple months! When I get realy old (and rich) I will be switching to helium.
 

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My nephew got a Phantom from Entity , some of the nicest kit I have seen and about 35 lbs.

Headwaters marine here in Washington ( build nice fishing stuff) just did a whitewater frame but it very much looked like borrowed design pieces of everyone elses work. I can see Madcatr, Entity, and others it was copied from, it looked very entrapment to me.

Madcatr makes beautiful stuff and they can be found sitting at Sotar quite frequently. Best folding towers out there.

Class V is a blend of Madcatr size tubing and the footbar style taken from Entity the towers kind of loosely borrowed from Madcatr.

All my research of late and interaction in the Facebook groups came to the facts that Madcatr and Entity were the two pioneers and main builders for a long time of performance day frames. Most of the other companies strip the design aspects from those two companies and then blend something together
Joe
 

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My nephew got a Phantom from Entity , some of the nicest kit I have seen and about 35 lbs.

Headwaters marine here in Washington ( build nice fishing stuff) just did a whitewater frame but it very much looked like borrowed design pieces of everyone elses work. I can see Madcatr, Entity, and others it was copied from, it looked very entrapment to me.

Madcatr makes beautiful stuff and they can be found sitting at Sotar quite frequently. Best folding towers out there.

Class V is a blend of Madcatr size tubing and the footbar style taken from Entity the towers kind of loosely borrowed from Madcatr.

All my research of late and interaction in the Facebook groups came to the facts that Madcatr and Entity were the two pioneers and main builders for a long time of performance day frames. Most of the other companies strip the design aspects from those two companies and then blend something together
Joe
We were wondering when you’d show up
 

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My buddy Jeff got a sweet one from Headquarters Marine in Vancouver WA.

Has a tunnel frame, canted foot bar, scout bars, folding oarlock towers, and similar features common to the better white water cat frame designs
There was a big blow out in the groups over those guys at Headwaters borrowing designs. I believe this was the frame in question you are speaking of. Forgive me if I can’t see or don’t respond to some comments I have blocked a few accounts on here for negativity.
The frame was a really weird looking thing like a throw everything into the soup and we don’t know why vibe
64991
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Anyone have greg babikoffs contact info? I don't have messenger on my 1982 frickn phone so can't do Facebook. B&B fabrication?
 

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Lots of people have conributed to the evolution of cat frames. Just like bikes, computers and a million other products, designs evolve as MANY people work to improve the function.

I removed the bottom bars from my DRE frame 20 years ago because I was tired of bashing rocks, does that make me the inventor of the tunnel frame? LOL

I will take credit for one innovation I have had on my last few frames and everyone is welcome to steal or borrow the idea. Weld a short piece of 1" Sch 40 to the center of the rear truss with a hole drilled thru it. Slip the front fork from a bike thru and pin in place.
Use the front scout bars as handles and you now can carry boat like a wheelbarrel instead of dragging it.
 

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There is a pretty good list going on who innovated what in one of the groups. Here is a brief run down

Maxxon Pontoons - Fairy Shoe Pontoons ( Pre Mark Kramers WD)

Madcatr- Tunnel Hull Cat Frame/ Folding Towers on Replaceable Rods, Captains boxes contoured to the tubes. Ergonomic Footholds . etc etc

Entity- Drybox tabs with strap notches, oar lock dual bushing system,HAT Tunnel-high arch truss cat frame tunnel, LCG bars - drop bars to lower seat center of gravity. ERGO Canted Footbar - ( now replicated by ClassV / DRE / PRE / Madcatr and others) Etc etc

Cascade Fabrication- latch in dryboxes, tri fold lid construction

American Whitewater- Aluminum frames/ Removable Adjustable Oar Towers, Woven Floors... Basically the OG of the aluminum raft frame
 

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Joe please post pictures of your frame designs as you seem to have such strong opinions about everyone else's. The frame you are so ignorantly trashing was built to my specifications for my specific needs. Sean at Headwaters Marine did a fantastic job and a timely build at a fare price. I talked to all the other frame makers that you mentioned and as you May well know they're either not making frames anymore or booked out for a year. If you understand anything about design you understand that we all Stand On The Backs of those that came before us in design. There is no stealing going on just using
good ideas and tweaking them for specific needs. If you take a minute to look or ask why things are the way they are you might actually learn something new.
When Dave at madcatter and Greg could not make a frame for me found somebody that could and they did a great job. There may be a good reason for the things that you see that you don't understand. If someone wants a frame made I recommend at Headwaters Marine.
64992
 
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