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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have a few larger trips coming up this season and I'm trying to figure out how much group gear we need.

So far I have...
Groover Vaults - (1 poop * people * days) / 40 uses
Toilet Paper - 2 * groover vaults.
Propane: 0.3 lb * people * days
Water: 1 gallon * people * days
Beer: 10 * day, per person.

What do you use for staples like coffee, salt, pepper, cooking oil, bleach? Any other fun ones?

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1/3lb propane is a bit much. I use 1/4lb per person per day. It errors on the heavy side even using a 4 burner, blaster and heating water for showers. Probably go with 1/5 for smaller go light trip.
8 beers a day is what I always go with. Never ran out of beer on the Grand. Some days you only drink a few other days you catch up.
Coffee is 2-3 measuring cups per pot for a 1 gallon pot. Usually 1.5 to 2 pots in the morning for a 25 person trip. You can sew ready to go pouches out of round coffee filters or use cold brew coffee bags. The pouches are pretty nice.
 

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Plan on more TP; everyone uses it to blow their nose as well as the primary use
Coffee....do not run out!
Spices....variety, repackaged in small shakers
Cooking oil.... 4 ounce Nalgene bottle
Tea/hot chocolate....nice to have, maybe do a group "survey says"?
Electrolyte solution....keep a few packets in first aid box, offer up at breakfast
 

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on many of the multi day floats I have been on the trip leader will have a toilet paper supply included in the group groover supplies.

Plus during the initial group meeting at the river the trip leader will toss out an additional supply of toilet paper rolls to individuals and ask them to stick a roll in their dry bag of personal gear. There is always a little bit of extra room in personal dry bags and the spare rolls of toilet paper are insurance just in case a disaster happens. Take out the card board cylinder and the T/P takes up minimal space. If the individual rolls are not needed then the individuals get to keep their T/P for personal use.

I agree with other statements that running out of toilet paper or coffee deserve back ups - just in case.
 

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I have a few larger trips coming up this season and I'm trying to figure out how much group gear we need.

So far I have...
Groover Vaults - (1 poop * people * days) / 40 uses Really depends on the groover style. EcoSafes are 40-50 uses, coyotes are 50-60, Selway/Jonny Partner/open 20mm groovers can go 60-70 uses.

Toilet Paper - 2 * groover vaults. Probably closer to 3 per vault, or 15 uses per roll. Like @2tomcat2 said, some people blow noses, and some are "mummy-hands".

Propane: 0.3 lb * people * days I've used more like 1/4lb * people * days, but really depends on menu style and other uses of hot water. More on winter trips (coffee/tea/cocoa)

Water: 1 gallon * people * days More on hot summer trips when people sweat and drink more

Beer: 10 * day, per person. Depends on drinker types. I've seen many people drink none, and kayakers drink 12. Some do cocktails in the evening and don't drink a 6-pack of beer a day.

What do you use for staples like coffee, salt, pepper, cooking oil, bleach? Any other fun ones? You can drink a pound of coffee a day with serious coffee drinkers in camp. I'd figure at least 1/2lb/day. I like regular size 2oz spice containers. The minis are too small, and big ones take up too much space. If you bake brownies, you'll use a LOT more oil. you actually don't use much bleach to sanitize dishes.


Charcoal is another tough one. You can use no charcoal, or a full bag if people use dutch ovens heavily.
 

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I pack my 'surplus' TP and paper towels in food saver bags before I leave home. Significantly reduces volume, and makes them impervious to water.
20 years ago, I packed a case of beer per person per day, and often ran out. Now I take about about 15 per day, usually have some leftover, or to help out the underpackers.
 

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An empty groover tank takes up some extra space but is not heavy. I always carry one more than is needed. It is great waterproof storage for extra tp, paper towels, charcoal, firewood. Just line it with a plastic bag.

Propane is crucial so I carry what I think I will need plus a 10 # second bottle backup. I plan on 1/5 lb. per day per person. We always have lots of leftover propane. One thing to consider is the menu when planning propane. If your group likes to do all cook from scratch meals rather than precooked reheat meals, you need to plan on 1/4 to 1/3 instead of 1/5 of a #.

Most the people I raft with are BYOB rafters. If someone asks I say bring 2 are 3 times what you think you will need. Sitting in a chair watching the setting sun tends to encourage extra consumption. Never trust your choice of beer or whiskey to anyone else.

TP, 4 per tank because I ran into a group that ran out half way through a trip that was willing to give up whiskey for TP. They were a sad sight begging for mercy (TP) from us. You can take leftovers home.

Water is tricky. Assuming you cannot filter, than 3/4 gallon a day per adult person if cool weather easy rowing. One an one half gallons a day if hot and hard to row. One or two gallons a day for coffee? One to two gallons a day for cooking if meals need clean water to cook in. Boiling bag meals in river water saves about a gallon a day over cooking from scratch.

BYO spices for what you are cooking except salt, pepper and cooking oil.

BYO coffee and coffee press (never trust your morning coffee to anyone one but yourself)

Steramine for hand wash and dish water settled from the river rather than Clorox
Just My .02$
 

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I put a couple\three steramine tablets in HOT water to disolve, then top it of with cold water. Use that as my final of 4 pans.
Haven't thought of using it in hand wash water, but that's a great idea!
You can also crush it and it will dissolve in cold water. Do it before dinner and the 4th pan is ready for dishes after dinner.
I need to read the bottle, but I think you only need 1-2 tabs for 2-3gal of water.

A bottle of 100 tabs is only ~$6 at a restaurant supply shop
 

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bighorn, thanks for the reminder about using the 2nd groover for storage!
 
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I have used nothing but Steramine for the last three years. I bought two bottles and still have some left after eight- ten trips. I will never go back to bleach. It also can't leak/spill.

For our Covid trips last year I started using it in the 3rd and 4th dish pan. I think I will make it a standard practice. Steramine is OK to use in hot water as well.

I also put a tablet in each wishy washy. Make sure that you have warm water for hand washing in the morning.
 

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Steramine in clear water one tablet per gallon, silty two per gallon. Be careful if crushing to keep dust out of eyes, do not rub your eyes until you have rinsed first (it can burn bad) and it can leave a light blue stain on a white t-shirt. I like to put the proper number of tablets for the hand wash in a well marked bottle of water (pint or so) that is clear and seals tight every morning and put it in the hand wash station for that night before packing the hand wash away in the morning. Pre- dissolved ready to use immediately at camp. Toss a couple in a bucket of dish water and it will dissolve long before you need to wash dishes. I put it in pre wash, wash, rinse and final rinse. If you do that and soak for a few seconds in final rinse, you are good to go. It makes the hand wash water much safer in my opinion. Been doing this for about 10 years and knock on wood, never had a illness on the river. Hot water does not affect it's effectiveness.
(Edited to add) it turns the water blue so there is never any doubt if the water is safe or not. No more I better put in more Clorox just to be safe problems or cracked skin.
 
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I ran onto a bunch of moose hunters up in Canada who had limited themselves to a fifth of booze and a full case of beer, per man, per day. I don't think they even saw any moose. I get along a lot better if I put a tight limit on my access to alcohol. Let me restate that ... everyone gets along better if I limit my access to alcohol. Booze ruins a lot of trips. "For the good of the trip," I keep a lid on my Self.
Being a "bear of very little brain," I need all the wits I can contribute to the trip. There's always a way I can help if I keep a sharper edge. Your mileage will vary, but less than 1/day works best for me.
Back in the day, a couple of us young fools decided to do a trip on nothing but "beans 'n' beer." Returning over the mountain, my buddy said "My a'ho's plumb wore out." I laughed so hard I had to pull the old Hudson off the road for a couple of minutes. You .. "kinda had to be there ..." He's gone these many years, and the camps are often a mite lonely without him. Cherish your friends.
 

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Beers is a tough one!

I typically budget anywhere between 8 to 12. We used to assume 15 beers per person per day, given the fact that beer is like oxygen, if you run out, everybody on the trip dies. 🤷‍♂️

Have had trips where four people finished four cases of beer on a four hour float (true / amazing story) and other times where we have brought back more than 100 beers because some folks simply didn’t carry their weight (after boasting about their pirate-like ways at the pre-trip meeting mind you).

Items I would consider when doing the beer calcs:

1) What is plan for the evening - are you having Mexican night with Margs or Ribeye with a ‘put hair on your chest red’? Full contact drinking games with dinner in the dark or are most folks switching to a stainless steel flask / brown booze? If everyone transitions from beer at camp you should be closer to the 8 per day number.
2) How many days of big water - if we have a day with Class IV’s we frown on anything more than a breakfast beer / hair of the dog. Once everybody is safely through the meat it is on like Donkey Kong.
3) Drinking prowess of each individual. Mileage varies significantly and it has been scientifically proven that people who wear socks with sandles drink less. Also be wary of the ‘suppressed husband’ effect where said man gets free and drinks himself into oblivion on night 1 only to nurse a wicked hangover on Day 2 and 3.
4) River beers (16oz screw top aluminum bottles) or something utterly uncivilized (any type of canned beer or worse yet, microbrew bottles - the latter simply has no fucking place on the river). Pints of beer change the math and most folks drink less motor oil than liquid gold.
5) Finally, what type of trip is this? 10 dudes on a booze cruise, high water Spring trip where wetsuits are mandatory or family fun in the sun - each of these will come with a very different per person beer factor and disaster awaits if you don’t get it right (+ and -)

Good Luck and remember, everybody will remember the trip / trip leader where you ran out of beer. And be forewarned, it won’t be fondly.
 

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I'm glad ya'll have your own boats and I don't have to carry your beer. I think I brought two 6 packs and 4 750ml bottles of Duchesse De Bourgogne (amazing...by far my favorite beer...especially to share) on my 21 day grand trip last year. I still have some of the beer left over. I did bring 4-5 sodas per day though.... and two handles of Tincup Whiskey... only barely broke into the second bottle and did a lot of sharing. Never understood the obsession with beer...I'm definitely a quality over quantity kinda guy. I'd take an awesome cocktail over a beer any day of the week.

Definitely some good info in here though... I never put the math to it...but probably should a bit more.
 

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PDX Duck, you nailed it well! Electric Mayhem ... Hell, it seems to be one of everybody's favorite subjects!
tBatt, you started a good thread here! Thanks. Good stuff all around!
 

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I'm glad ya'll have your own boats and I don't have to carry your beer. I think I brought two 6 packs and 4 750ml bottles of Duchesse De Bourgogne (amazing...by far my favorite beer...especially to share) on my 21 day grand trip last year. I still have some of the beer left over. I did bring 4-5 sodas per day though.... and two handles of Tincup Whiskey... only barely broke into the second bottle and did a lot of sharing. Never understood the obsession with beer...I'm definitely a quality over quantity kinda guy. I'd take an awesome cocktail over a beer any day of the week.

Definitely some good info in here though... I never put the math to it...but probably should a bit more.
I'm with you on the beer. Last Grand I did, I took 3 beers a day, and 2 750's of Dalmore and had 2- 6 packs and a couple inches in the second bottle on day 24. Getting f'd up in camp every night is something I did in my 20's, and then feel like crap the next morning.. Older and wiser these days perhaps ? At least older..

Vitalyte electrolyte replacement drink for me anyway is key to feeling good, put it in my water bottles in the morning.. One June GC trip, 125 degrees on the river, myself and my wife were the ONLY people that weren't suffering from dehydration on that trip.. The rest of the group was drinking sugary gatorade..
 
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Getting drunk is stealing happiness from tomorrow.

I like beer, but part of realizing I was not capable of partying like a rock star was making the decision that getting drunk was no longer a great idea. I don't mind a buzz, but I'd rather sleep with a clear head on the off chance I wake up at 2am with a ceiling of stars and can take some good Milky Way photos. :)
 
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