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Discussion Starter #1
I feel like I've progressed quite a bit this year and my buddy and I were talking about what the next step up would be that's still running without stepping up too far and getting a beat down... I've recently ran the #'s, royal gorge, and dumont on clear creek all at low water. What is in that would be a little bit harder? Middle narrows on the poudre? Upper CC?
 

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Not much that is a little bit harder. I think middle narrows is a significant jump up. Most of the stuff you mentioned is moderate class III at current levels. Main stuff running now is bailey, gore, and narrows, which are all IV+ to V.

If I were you I'd keep plugging away at the moderate runs and look to bust into class IV next year when the water comes back.

You might look at the inbetween on blackrock which is mostly class IV if you walk the big 3.

This is the curse of colorado... just as you are warmed up, in good paddling shape, and ready to step it up, the water is gone. It will be back next year though!
 

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Middle Narrows is a real step up from those runs, but it is short and roadside so it is relatively easy to bail if things go bad. Some places on Middles are worse than others so a guide is helpful and easy to find this time of year after work or on the weekends.

Stepping up is all about your skills, and not necessarily the runs you've run. The real question is can you boof, roll in shallow current, and catch eddys in a rapid like #5 at current flows. Twice i've had first timers tag along with me in Bailey who said the hardest thing they had ever run was Numbers. One of the guys killed it, didn't even roll. The other guy got destroyed. Be honest with yourself - are you completely confident in running those rapids and playing around in them. If so you may be ready to step it up, if not get on those same runs higher next year and you'll get ready.

Edit: Stevens Down is easy class III right now, but a good way to warm up for middles or to get some more boating in after a couple laps in the narrows.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Middle Narrows is a real step up from those runs, but it is short and roadside so it is relatively easy to bail if things go bad. Some places on Middles are worse than others so a guide is helpful and easy to find this time of year after work or on the weekends.

Stepping up is all about your skills, and not necessarily the runs you've run. The real question is can you boof, roll in shallow current, and catch eddys in a rapid like #5 at current flows. Twice i've had first timers tag along with me in Bailey who said the hardest thing they had ever run was Numbers. One of the guys killed it, didn't even roll. The other guy got destroyed. Be honest with yourself - are you completely confident in running those rapids and playing around in them. If so you may be ready to step it up, if not get on those same runs higher next year and you'll get ready.
Definitely looking to do some high water runs on the stuff I mentioned next year. I do feel confident with everything you mentioned though. Have eddied out right after #5 when it was running 650, great boofs on the dumont run, and had a lot of practice last year rolling in foxton/used to shallow mank, and a pretty solid brace this year.

I think I'll probably do stevens down first and then maybe middle narrows if I can talk Bob into playing tour guide!
 

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What about 11 mile?.....I. 've never done it, but been thinking about it..Is it fair to say it is harder than Foxton -Waterton -Dumont -#'s but easier than Bailey? or is it comparable to those runs assuming they are all pretty low ?..talking about the run inbetween the V 's on 11 Mile


p s some dude on I think AW says he ran the spillwsy at 11 Mile, so 3 V 's if you count that
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What about 11 mile?.....I. 've never done it, but been thinking about it..Is it fair to say it is harder than Foxton -Waterton -Dumont -#'s but easier than Bailey? or is it comparable to those runs assuming they are all pretty low ?..talking about the run inbetween the V 's on 11 Mile
good question! I've seen some videos of it, but never looked at it in person.
 

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I think Eleven Mile is maybe a touch harder than Foxton and a touch easier than Dumont, more creeky than the Numbers, much easier than Bailey. It's mostly technical pool-drop with one good sized river-wide ledge hole. I'm talking about between the Vs. The upper V is pretty steep and I only ran the first (low-angle) half. The lower one is way burlier. It's a fun run; I wish it ran more often.
 

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Thanks Josh..'bout what I thought.."bout what WWSR says..some accounts made it out to be harder and those guidebook authors are sandbaggers afterall:D
 

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When it comes to forgiving water that hones boat handling skills, Pine Creek through Numbers at current flows is hard to beat. Pine Creek has some technical moves, and an awesome boof-to-eddy. Three sisters below Pine Creek has some good hits and great eddy catching. (you can put in below Pine Creek Rapid to pick up 3-sisters, which is a hoot). Number 1 has about 15 complex eddies to catch (to me some of the best practice in boat skills). I think you can spend 20-minutes just going down Number 1. Number 1.5 has a great little hit that's hard to nail perfectly river center/right. Number 2 has that awesome boof near the top (the dome) and another one down below. Number 3 has some good boat-control-to-run-the-meatiest-line. Number 5 has that rock-guarded eddy on the right and super boof on the left. Damn I love numbers.

Great swim story...buddy and I were paddling number 1 in said fashion at about 1200 or so. Completely exhausted from eddy catching, I playfully plopped into the hole near the bottom, maytaged for a while, couldn't get the strength to do anything else, so I pulled and swam to the beach near the bridge. Buddy got it on film...his commentary is priceless, constant laughter.

Waterton is also unusually good for practice. Did you know there are at least 3 (and maybe 4) very different lines in Green Bridge? My favorite is left to right through the pour-over hole (not for the faint of heart). Avalanche has some sketchy eddy-ferry options and the last rapid also has a number of tough-to-nail eddies.

You've heard it before, but making an easy fun run harder by picking a challenging line is the safest and best way to progress. If you're in the Ark Valley this weekend, hit me up and I'd be glad to show you every-damn-eddy-surf wave-and-boof on Numbers.
 

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Schedule the Upper Animas and Lime Creek for next year.
Gauley season is just a couple of months off though.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
When it comes to forgiving water that hones boat handling skills, Pine Creek through Numbers at current flows is hard to beat. Pine Creek has some technical moves, and an awesome boof-to-eddy. Three sisters below Pine Creek has some good hits and great eddy catching. (you can put in below Pine Creek Rapid to pick up 3-sisters, which is a hoot). Number 1 has about 15 complex eddies to catch (to me some of the best practice in boat skills). I think you can spend 20-minutes just going down Number 1. Number 1.5 has a great little hit that's hard to nail perfectly river center/right. Number 2 has that awesome boof near the top (the dome) and another one down below. Number 3 has some good boat-control-to-run-the-meatiest-line. Number 5 has that rock-guarded eddy on the right and super boof on the left. Damn I love numbers.

Great swim story...buddy and I were paddling number 1 in said fashion at about 1200 or so. Completely exhausted from eddy catching, I playfully plopped into the hole near the bottom, maytaged for a while, couldn't get the strength to do anything else, so I pulled and swam to the beach near the bridge. Buddy got it on film...his commentary is priceless, constant laughter.

Waterton is also unusually good for practice. Did you know there are at least 3 (and maybe 4) very different lines in Green Bridge? My favorite is left to right through the pour-over hole (not for the faint of heart). Avalanche has some sketchy eddy-ferry options and the last rapid also has a number of tough-to-nail eddies.

You've heard it before, but making an easy fun run harder by picking a challenging line is the safest and best way to progress. If you're in the Ark Valley this weekend, hit me up and I'd be glad to show you every-damn-eddy-surf wave-and-boof on Numbers.
True! Maybe I need to take another look at pine creek... Probably running waterton today... I've been looking at different lines through green bridge. Wish I could take you up on your offer this weekend I'm working sat/sun and headed up to jackson hole on monday then. Won't have another weekend off until 8/3-4

Nick
 

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Full confession: I didn't read all the responses because I'm too lazy. But it sounds like you ran #s at 650cfs and felt like you were nailing all your lines and were confident eddy hopping. And the CC runs you felt like you dialed everything? I would say it's time to go run Bailey with a few prudent walks.
 

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Paddled 11-mile canyon b/w the V's two Mondays ago and it was a lot of fun. Read-and-run pool/drop the whole 8 miles or whatever it was. It was about on par with the #'s at 650 but without a lick of pushiness. We then ran Gore for the first time the following day (walked Gore since the sneak was gone and couldn't tell if Ginger was a keeper; walked Tunnel too b/c we'd read it was mean below 900). I also ran Pine Creek for the first time at around 700 and it was pretty manageable. All in all, Pine Creek Rapid and Gore without the V's seemed like good steps up but not too much...at those flows.
 
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