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Discussion Starter #1
Yes, bored on Friday afternoon, someone save me from work!

So we got into rafting last summer, and I am loving it. I row and row and row. My husband, bless his heart, is not a huge water fan, but is going along for the ride. We did a 5 day trip last week, really mellow water, and he will also go on bigger water, III+ (some call it IV-). He doesn't want to do anything bigger, and doesn't want to do that class very often. Problem is the best "wilderness" trips are all bigger water.

Most of you will probably think it is a no brainer, but together some bigger water trips with friends, and leave the hubby behind. Downside to that is he is my best playmate, and I hate to take a vacation without him when we could do a vacation together. No, not co-dependant, just limited time off. I already take windsurfing vacations without him, usually every year or every other year and I'm not sure I want to add another class of single vacations.

The upside is that if I left him at home, I wouldn't have to feel bad about what to do with the dogs while we are gone.

What do you all think? What musings would the MB crowd have on a warm (100+ here), sunny Friday afternoon at work?
 

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leave him at home. do things together and apart but do the things that you love or you build up resentment and that destroys the relationship.

and i am happy that the dogs have someone to take care of them..
 

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Get a new husband??

But seriously most of the classic multi day runs are class III with a IV. He is comfortable with this already, i htought.

Middle Fork Salmon, Hells Canyon, Main Salmon, All the Green River, Cataract (at medium flows), all the Yampa, all the Colorado (get a guide for the Grand?), Westwater, Oregon (Rogue).

Get your fix on harder Class IV with day trips. Most of those runs are day trippers anyway. (numbers, pine, black rock, poudre......)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Salmon is off his list. He'll do a day in the Alberton Gorge (semi reluctantly), but friends say the Salmon is bigger, and more of it - all the time. He wants to steer clear of IV if at all possible, with some small exceptions. I would LOVE to do the Salmon, have some friends doing it later this month. I also have a life goal of the south fork of the Flathead. 20 mile hike/horse into the Bob Marshall Wilderness and then 3-4 days of rafting. 9 miles of some crazy gorge that is up to Class V, and it can be only paddled as it is too skinny for oars. I'd do that guided, but I don't see him doing that. Potential major consequences for going in the water, you better be comfortable in the water. I am a fish, and he is not.


Perhaps it doesn't help that I've been getting interested in taking some river safety/rescue classes and talking about such things. One person posted about choosing your river limits, and choose them based on swimming, not rowing. Hubby isn't keenly interested in swimming. That mentality is good, and the main reason why we stopped skiing things with no room for error (cliff afterwards, rocks/scree etc).
 

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truly talk him into the Salmon (main or midle) someday. At lower flows it is not pushy and definitley a class III.

At higher flows (45,000 +) i came outta my raft and WOW it was a big and very wide river !!
 

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I would find out why he is uncomfortable around water and see if you can address the underlying issue. Maybe he doesn't feel like he can swim well, maybe needs some practice and lessons. Maybe it is about the remoteness, or something else. Anyways, try to find out the real issue, and what it is that really makes him uncomfortable. Successful mileage on easier stuff may help too.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It is definately fear and lack of comfort swimming. He does not choose to swim. At his age (50), he has no interest in learning to get comfortable in water. That time is long past. He just wants to stick to mellower water.

I would find out why he is uncomfortable around water and see if you can address the underlying issue. Maybe he doesn't feel like he can swim well, maybe needs some practice and lessons. Maybe it is about the remoteness, or something else. Anyways, try to find out the real issue, and what it is that really makes him uncomfortable. Successful mileage on easier stuff may help too.
I'm going to have to pass on the later season info to him. I'll have to try to get that confirmed by people we know (and he trusts) so it comes to him from a credible source.

Thanks!

Hey, what about westwater and cataract? Later is III+? How about too much heat. We love to camp in Utah, I really want to get a river trip in there within a few years too. Both of those sound like they can be big though.
 

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Just got back from 5 days of Cataract at @7000 and it is awesome. I was most impressed with Big Drop 3 (I think it's number 28 ) which seems IV ish to me at that level. Other than that seems like it was all III's. We had 14 Oar rigs, 2 paddle rafts w/ 3 occupants each, and one duckie, resulting in no flips and only one instance when all of the paddler's were dumped.
On our trip each rapid seemed to run out in long eddy's with time to recover from a mishap.
As for heat, it was 100+ every day, but very comfortable at night. Bring the water guns and Umbrella's.

Hey, what about westwater and cataract? Later is III+? How about too much heat. We love to camp in Utah, I really want to get a river trip in there within a few years too. Both of those sound like they can be big though.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What's the smallest boat that would be good on cataract? 13'?
 

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Ayyyhh, how YOU doin.

My wife's a little hottie shuttle bunny. I got pics. Swap?

My wife swam right out of the sport. Wish I had started her out on easier runs. Aaah, separation makes the heart grow fonder, I think they say.

cheers:)
 

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Do the Main Salmon in late Aug/early Sept. Great trip. Did it last year in early Sept and doing it again this year. My wife doesn't like big water either and she loved the trip last year. In fact we are going on her permit this year.
 

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numbers swimmer

I am the one who hates water and with a seasoned (12 year) guide for a hubby one would think I would feel safe but sometimes there is nothing to do. I fell out in class V water (twice) and now have no need to ever go in the water again. I take photos from the shore, hike in to camp and bring tasty treats they can't take on the boats, or take alone time. A few days never caused many problems for us and I think I need the vacation from all of the "raft talk" sometimes. Good luck, but unless he really wants to nothing will shake the panic and upset stomach that comes from even sitting on a raft near big water- and that is no fun for you... :)
 

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My partner hadn't paddled much, so I took her in a 2-seater Pack Cat down a lot of II rapids and scenic flatwater. I did the maneuvering but she paddled enough to get the feel of it. Eventually she wanted to try it solo: the Escalante (Utah) was her first long run in her own boat. Later in the season we did Deso at 15,000 or so, and she chose to paddle a Pack Cat while I rowed the barge. She cruised it, and only yelled at me once, for blowing through something she thought we should scout.

But it took 2-3 years for her to feel confident running class III in a small boat. That's enough excitement for her. She rides on the big cat for III+ and up, and isn't really interested in trying stuff where there's a good chance of a swim.

So each season I plan plenty of trips that she'll enjoy. And she's cool when I head out with friends to run stuff that's more challenging. That way I don't feel cramped by her comfort range, and she doesn't get pushed into runs that she'd rather not do.

I nearly drowned twice, first in a canoe flip (me and the boat went under a debris bar) and second getting stuck in a crappy homebuilt 'yak (with no spray skirt). I was terrified of whitewater for years and know how that feels. It took a long time before I felt comfortable looking at rapids, let alone running them.

That is, you might have good reasons for being scared, but you also can learn not to be. Within limits. When I see shots of yakmonsters flying off 60 foot falls, I get freaked all over again. And I hate scouting difficult runs, because I get way more spooked standing and looking. It's a relief to get back in the boat and just go. It's like my brain is blowing smoke, while my body knows what to do.

If he's riding rather than rowing, maybe he's got too much time to think.

yrs, Chip
 

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I can relate

I'm like you. I grew up in and around water in southern Michigan. I've lived in Wyo for 26 years and finally, about 6 years ago, filled the void by learning to kayak. My husband humored me and he loves it too, but not to the degree I do. He's not a water person and never learned more than a dog paddle. I have to feed the addiction, him, not so much. He loves it, but not to the nth degree like me.

So as I'm contemplating a quick trip for my first d of Numbers, I read your post. He wouldn't go if I decided to and has no interest in trying the run. I'm thinking it's the perfect op with it being CW Ark weekend.

Anyway, good luck. Every marriage is obviously different, but we just celebrated our 24th anniversary and it seems I've always had some sort of sport addition involving travel without him. I've always felt that he's a little bit proud of me too. He's obviously a pretty cool guy. And he'll take care of the dog as well. :) I'll do it for him when he goes turkey or pheasant hunting! (We'll go deer and elk hunting together!!!)

Deb
 

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You can take a 13' boat on Cat Canyon if you want but that depends on the group you are with. How may oar rigs will you go with, group size, skill level, gear and most importantly do you have a transome and a motor? Cat is a long trip (especially without a motor for the very flat water) and bigger boats haul more gear. As far as the rapids a 13 boat is fine, but can you get the gear you need on a 13 foot boat fo a 4-5 day trip?

Dig Drop 2 is the most technical and can not easily be portaged, Big Drop 3 has some holes and waves that pack a punch and below that are some nice size hay stacks. There is only one day of rapids, but they are fun ones with not a whole lot of consequence... but there is always the potential. the right crew, oar person and safety gear should get you through.

You also may want to convince your husband to take a whitewater rescue class with you, it's a great way to get comfortable swimming rivers before you are thrown into one and forced to swim when you are not comfortable.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
All our friends have bigger boats, 14' and such. All oars. We'd consider getting the necessary rigging for a motor, but is the slack water above the lake gone now that the lake is so low? We just did a 5 (planned 6) day trip with the two of us and 4 dogs on the 13' boat, so we are pretty compact. We filtered water days 4 & 5, something we probably shouldn't rely on there.

LOVE the idea of taking a rescue class together!



You can take a 13' boat on Cat Canyon if you want but that depends on the group you are with. How may oar rigs will you go with, group size, skill level, gear and most importantly do you have a transome and a motor? Cat is a long trip (especially without a motor for the very flat water) and bigger boats haul more gear. As far as the rapids a 13 boat is fine, but can you get the gear you need on a 13 foot boat fo a 4-5 day trip?


You also may want to convince your husband to take a whitewater rescue class with you, it's a great way to get comfortable swimming rivers before you are thrown into one and forced to swim when you are not comfortable.
 

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I was (i think) on the same cat trip fatal data was on, and one of the paddle boats was a 10 foot bucket boat. They did fine at this level. I did see this boat flip in cataract last thanksgiving running as an oar rig with a passenger. This would not have happened except none of us had ever been down cat before so the little boat got munched in an easily avoidable hole (had any of us been down before).
I would reccomend a cat trip for the spousal unit. It is a pretty easy row at low levels, and is a beautiful trip. Depending on your schedule, you can camp at Spanish Bottom, and bust through all the rapids in a day. This means several days of flat water, with one rapid day in the middle. I would recomend a winter trip as you will see no one.

Scott
 
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