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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking to add a 13-14' Cat to my fleet. I'm looking at the Sotar Legend and Aire Wave Destroyer. I have not had a chance to row either one, but I have used an Aire Ocelot.

I'm looking to use it as a single person play boat by myself, a two person day tripper with my wife and a single person with one cooler/drybox for my wife to use on multi day trips in the NW while I row our 14' raft.

My wife is not an experienced rower, so I'm looking a little more for durability and the ability to recover from some newbie mistakes.

I'm planning on building my own steel frame with 36" between the tubes.

What are the pros and cons of the Aire and Sotar? I'm giving the Aire an advantage for ease of repair on a river and maybe a bit more durability.

If any of you have rowed both with a similar frame set up between them, I'd love to hear your comments and opinions.
 

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UR like 3+ hours from any water? I think you would do just fine with an inter tube on the spokie. What are you planning on floating that would dictate a WD over the Ocelot?? Bowl and Pitcher?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Mattchu, I already read those posts and they are 4-5 years old. I was just looking for some newer perspectives.
 

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I actually floated the upper and lower spokie runs this summer. The legend vs WD... ?? at the end of the day both rock. I like the Aire boats simply because I can carry an extra bladder and you can make bomber repairs on the river. Plus the aire factory is closer to me so getting the boat to a certified repair center is much easier for me than Sotar in Oregon. If you float alot of silty muddy water, the aire needs a little extra attention in the cleaning process. If you get a Sotar spent the extra $ for extra material for the frame. Next
 

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I've been researching the same thing. It appears that the legend might work better in my instance, because I'd like the option to do overnighters.

I had a cheesy 9' skeeter and everyone wanted to use the skeeter. I took it through a class iii+ and broke frame in half. Got it welded together and took it down the lower rogue along with my Raft and broke it in half again. Small cats are a blast. It'd be really fun to have an 11' legend or 12' destroyer, but that would limit most to day trips and no passengers.
 

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I've been researching the same thing. It appears that the legend might work better in my instance, because I'd like the option to do overnighters.
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Of course a Legend will work for over nighters. But the tube design really is not for loading down the boat with gear. The whole idea of the WD or Legend is for hard class 4+ and up turn on a dime solo river running and flip it up right as easy as possible. In reality long less rockered boats like the Ocelot are more forgiving when loading them and they rip it most river conditions. Unless your dropping low volume step rivers, you will not have any real reason to buy a WD or Legend. Most ppl only think they want a legend or WD when 99% of the time a std cat will serve their purpose better. I believe that this is the case here. Don't get sucked into hype! Just get on a mid sized class 3+ pool drop river on a windy afternoon in a big tube high rocker spiny short cat boat. you'll be hating on life. Just saying.....

I've said this before. Buying a WD or Legend for less then hair conditions is just like buying a full blown down hill mountain bike and never leaving the paved road. Its good exercise but not really practical.
 

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Option....to do overnighters.


Looking at that 12'x19" St cat for sale on here. Would be fun. Not sure about single chambers though plus I'm big so maybe not. Might be good for you athelake.

Personally this coming summer I'm stepping up to more class iv and maybe some v.
 

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Option....to do overnighters.


Looking at that 12'x19" St cat for sale on here. Would be fun. Not sure about single chambers though plus I'm big so maybe not. Might be good for you athelake.

Personally this coming summer I'm stepping up to more class iv and maybe some v.

OK, is this thread now turning into a joke? If so I'll leave you to yours. But seriously. If your thinking over night stuff a 12.5' sotar is about as small as you would want to go. 12x19 would be a bad idea over the long run. 14' x 22" is really still on the small side. If you want the 12' you need to make due with a round boat. And still be running backpacker style
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I realize that a Legend or WD will be overkill for my wife on our multi-days. However, I think that I'd rather her have more boat than she needs and still have a boat that I can progress up to class V with for me.

I'm leaning towards the WD. I can get it for less and I appreciate AIRE's customer service. From what I have read, the WD tracks better with less input, which my wife would probably appreciate. I have rowed an Ocelot several times, but never on something bigger than 3+.

With that being said, everyone I raft with that has a cat runs a Sotar.
 

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Just a thought, Both the WD and Legend are not known to be great "tracking" boats in the world of cat boating and I really don't know how much your wife is going to enjoy trying to paddle either cat in a straight line in the slack water. Let alone any wind! The maxed out rocker will make those boat spin as designed in the flats. My guess is that a novice/hobbiest oarswoman will not think so highly of a boat that will require more strength and conditioning. Now say you get yourself something like a 14'x22" or 24" ST type with less rocker. It will actually track, require less effort to forward motion, easier to load, and only 6" to 8" longer in bow and stern. And at the end of the day the 14 will take you anywhere your going and is capable of dropping anything that a married man would dare.

Remember, WD and Legend work best in water like the North Fork of the Payette. If that's whats on you brain, then buy it and make you wife pay in the flats.

And yes alot of ppl buy sotar legends because they look cool. But so does an Intense downhill MTN bike. But that don't make it a good road bike. right!
 

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Either boat will work great for play/creek boating, but you need to size it for your use. both boats are available in the sizes your talking about so again, just order the size that matches your use. And any boat can be an "overnight" boat if you are willing to pack light enough. I had my backpacking 5day pack down to 26 pounds. Add a chair and I have an ultra light 5 day rig in an IK if I wish.

But more on topic are the Pros and Cons of Sotar vs Aire respectively. I just bought my first legend and will drive it this spring, but I've test driven a bunch of friends Legends so take my advice with a grain of salt. Size it right and both boats will perform roughly the same. The differnce is mostly material. Sotars material is supposed to be more durable but repairs are more involved and take longer and any repair will always be a "glued patch". Sotar will build you just about any custom size you want, even minor changes from their standard design. Aire material is still very strong but as I understand it not quite as strong as urethane. The big advantage TO ME is that repairs are very quick and in the off season I can send my boat in to Aire and have the patches welded from the inside which makes them nearly invisible and the patch is permanent and even stronger than it was before. Aire does not do custom sizes as I understand it.

My two cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for all the info so far.

Dirtbag, I have never grown up, my wife will vouch for me. I will always do shit that I shouldn't.

Carry on....
 

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The wave destroyers are really quirky tubes compared to the legends. The legends have a more predictable handling. The wave destroyers when they were made shorter would always sky rocket and launch you out of the boat. Just watch some Lochsa footage. The legends carry you through a lot of things that normally would take out a boater who is lacking in technique. That can be good and bad. I profiled my new tubes after the legends because of the handling, I did lower the tip rise for reasons that dirtbagkayaker stated. 98 percent of the people who I run into don't need legends or run them to their capabilities they want them to be one of the group. Wave destroyers you can get longer because they do feel like a shorter tube.
I have a funny story about tube test out on a river we did one time, we did some logo swapping and it was pretty funny how people told us one tube ran way better than the other like 10 out of 10 people picked the sotar as a better handling tube and it was one we actually made, moral is some people don't really actually pay attention to the tube performance as much as the name on the tube to be part of the in the in crowd. I personally love having a boat that isn't like everyone else's and also having the ability to make performance adjustments, I don't own equipment just because a buddy has it, I own it because it works well for me.

One of the best performing tubes I have ever run is when we took the sotar sl concept and reworked the pattern to have even better performance,we took all the performance issues out people didn't like and added some good ones. Everyone who ran that tube loved it over the legend design. It is still my favorite design ever and once you use them on a technical river you can definitely feel the benefits. image.jpg
 

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Just a thought, Both the WD and Legend are not known to be great "tracking" boats in the world of cat boating and I really don't know how much your wife is going to enjoy trying to paddle either cat in a straight line in the slack water. Let alone any wind! The maxed out rocker will make those boat spin as designed in the flats. My guess is that a novice/hobbiest oarswoman will not think so highly of a boat that will require more strength and conditioning. Now say you get yourself something like a 14'x22" or 24" ST type with less rocker. It will actually track, require less effort to forward motion, easier to load, and only 6" to 8" longer in bow and stern. And at the end of the day the 14 will take you anywhere your going and is capable of dropping anything that a married man would dare.

Remember, WD and Legend work best in water like the North Fork of the Payette. If that's whats on you brain, then buy it and make you wife pay in the flats.

And yes alot of ppl buy sotar legends because they look cool. But so does an Intense downhill MTN bike. But that don't make it a good road bike. right!
Hmm. I took my 12.5' set of Legend tubes down Deso this spring at high water. And this fall took a loaded 15' set with a passenger down Deso again. Both time with lots of the typical Deso/gray wind. Had no problem with tracking and thought both were great.
 

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I think you guys should look at Scadden - the only boat with a true class 5 rating!
 

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I own a Sabertooth 12'6" with a row frame. I own a 14' legend with 24" tubes. I own a 15'6" saturn with straight tubes 24". All three have been down the Upper Gauley numerous times. The sabertooth has the same profile as the wave destroyer. In my opinion you would be happy with either. You can load a 14' cat down for multiday trips. Just leave home some of the food so you will have plenty of room for beer!
 

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I always tell people the '07 ocelot is a great boat. Thought I was going to upgrade to a more radical design by now but I havent...14x22 is the perfect blend between day, passenger and week trips. I have dragged the boat over thousands of rocks and hundreds of riverbanks and I have done many repairs. Never popped a bladder. One boat is light and sporty and one boat is more durable and heavy. Gotta go with an alumninum frame, unless you're gonna bend and weld up your own steel frame of course
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I am planning on welding up my own frame with 36" between tubes and a removable passenger seat behind the rower. I'm also considering a single bay cargo bay, possibly with a mesh floor.
 
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