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Boy am I sick of all the gauges that are off line on the South Platte and elsewhere. I do understand that I can go and add the www. and get each gauge individually. Not happening for me. Would someone please mention it if they spot some water locally? I'd love to go boating.

Thanks.
 

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Hey Dave,

I don't know what site you're tryng to get your info from but hopefully this will help you figure out what's going where. Its the table of real-time data from the folks who started doing real-time data. Follow the link below to the USGS on line gauges in Colorado.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/co/nwis/current/?type=flow

Here's the National Map where you can see how the whole country's doing;

http://water.usgs.gov/waterwatch/

Another site for Colorado stream flow is the Colorado Div. of Water Resources page:

http://www.dwr.state.co.us/Hydrology/flow_search.asp

They're not quite as slick as the other flow sites but may be more reliable. I'm pretty sure that these are where the data come from on the non-governmental websites.

Folks out there - please remember that this is your tax dollars at work for you. Currently lots of gauges are being taken off line and others are threatened by budget cuts - like the one at Middle Fork Lodge. But then if this is the sacrifice we have to make so folk in the top one or two percent income bracket can have huge tax cuts, then its our duty to lower our quality of life and you're a bleeding heart librul (spit while saying the "L" word) if you don't like it.

Oops, sorry about getting political folks!

SYOTR,

--Andy

PS - go surf this too: http://www.usgs.gov/

Personally I'd rather have my tax dollars going to this than giving oil companies a break or feeding the military industrial complex. It wasn't God, guts and guns that made the US what we are, it was mass education, infrastructure and R&D.
 

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Well said Andy.

The last link is one of the best going for finding flows on almost every stretch of water you would ever want to boat in this state. 8)
 

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Not to get too far off subject...but firstly, it was God, guts and guns that made this country what it is. How else could we have taken all this land (and prime boating waterways for that matter) from those who lived here before us? Secondly, it's stupid that on every boating forum anytime there is a budget cut that effects us as boaters, its blamed on tax cuts for the rich. That is patently untrue, though it could take pages to explain why. Lastly, just for argument's sake, let's assume that it was a tax cut for the top two percent of earners that was responsible for turning off our gauges; According to BT's (totally unscientific, I know) poll of boaters' incomes only about four percent of us could be classified in said top earning bracket. So as devil's advocate why should they pay for the other ninety-six percent of us?

The only way to really get what you want is to lobby strong and long on the local and state level. AW has had many successes following this mantra. And if operational gauges are important enough, you can effect a change with a bit of volunteerism- it costs nothing.
 

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Kinda off topic as far as the conservative/liberal confrontation but I saw some stats the other day that the upper 5% of wage earners in the US pay 56% of all the federal taxes collected. The upper 50% pays 96% of the taxes. I never had any idea that it was that lopsided. So the bottom 50% of the people in the US only pay 4% of federal tax.
I am pretty sure that since my wife and I both work and we pay a shit load of taxes that I am in the upper 50%. I find these stats disturbing.
 

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Do the math, it's simple....

If we have say....9 taxpayers....

#1 earns $1,350,000.00
#2 earns $245,000.00
#3 earns $48,000.00
#4 earns $24,000.00
#5 earns $37,000.00
#6 earns $18,000.00
#7 earns $21,500.00
#8 earns $42,000.00
#9 earns $76,000.00

#1 and #2 Taxpayers are at the 150k+ mark in earned income, so they'll be our upper tax bracket.

The remainder will be out middle and lower income brackets. Our upper bracket pays out almost 38% in income tax, social security, and medicare.. or $606,100.00 in combined taxes.

our lower and middle taxpeyer group pays out about 22.5% on average in income tax, social security, and medicare..or about $59,962.50

Our total tax revenue is:$666,062.50

Our lower and middle taxpayer only are paying 9.0025% of the total tax revenue, while our upper tax individuals pay the majority of the tax revenue base...
 

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I don't have exact figures but isn't it true that about 90% of the wealth in this country is controlled by about 3% of the people? So, what is wrong with having the wealthy pay more in taxes? Aren't they receiving a lions share of the benefits this country offers while the middle and lower class provide us with our military personnel, police, firemen, etc. In other words, the wealthy seem to have it really good here and all I hear is them complaining about paying taxes. So....until this country has an equal playing field for all to become wealthy, I don't have a problem with the wealthier of us paying a bit more in taxes.

Also, when you compare all these numbers be sure to include all the sales taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, etc so that we can compare apples to apples. Simply pulling out one category of taxes (fed income taxes) and making board statements is just that.....simple minded.

And, if ya'll want it totally fair, then push for a flat tax and do away with all the loopholes. Why hasn't that happened?....because of the golden rule......those with the gold make the rules. If the wealthy keep fighting a flat tax, that sure tells me something!!!!! They love their loopholes so much that they go around complaining about the poor not paying enough. Bull....the problem is their love of the almighty dollar.

Thanks for listening.

oh yea....this was about gauges....sorry for getting involved in stealing another thread.


tomcat
 

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flat tax seems like a fair option (everyone pays the same amount), but to collect the same total amount of money that the government currently is, i'd imagine the average flat tax would be FAR too high for the lower class, and probably more than alot of people's yearly income altogether.

anyone know what that amount might be?

and wouldn't a flat tax system actually benefit the rich?

heck, i'm confused now...
 

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Bryan Houle said:
flat tax seems like a fair option (everyone pays the same amount), but to collect the same total amount of money that the government currently is, i'd imagine the average flat tax would be FAR too high for the lower class, and probably more than alot of people's yearly income altogether.

anyone know what that amount might be?

and wouldn't a flat tax system actually benefit the rich?

heck, i'm confused now...
It seems the last figure I heard proposed was something around 15% of income. This would be lower than most pay now but I assume the wealthier don't like the idea of losing their loopholes. I think the poor would not be hit so hard on this but I am not a tax expert....just an expert at everything else in life....just ask me. :lol:


tomcat
 

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Yeah... the flat tax would be great. 10 to 15% of what you make - period - end of story. The rich don't want it but everyone else does. :shock:

As for the gauges, the gauges are not down due to tax cuts. If you are trying to use the Phat Eye website for your Colorado river readings, they apparently haven't updated their links to the gauges with the "www" in the address they look up. If they fix that then all will work like it should. In the meantime, you have to go to the Colorado Division of Water Resources site to get what you want in river levels. Inconvenient but what do you expect for a free service anyway?
 

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ok Tomcat...

Tommy,

I'm all for a flat tax or hell... even just sales tax... legalize pot and tax the hell out of it.... you're right though, about 3% of the country control 90% of the wealth. I ain't rich, but I sure as hell am not poor either and I hate paying taxes, use fees (for public lands owned by the people and for the people, yet held in mismanaged and somewhat dubious trust by some jackasses in DC who'd fart their intestines out their left nostril should they ever happen upon a mountain lion or a wolf in the wild), river permits, etc etc.

and since you're an expert at everything else, Tomcat... would it be in bad taste to wear a sequined purple sprayskirt with a pink kayak?



(I need to lay off the hard stuff...)
 

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Check out the site www.gritty.org There is a good bit of info hidden around there including stats on these sort of topics. The site also seems to be fairly good about where the info comes from.
 

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Uh, Tomcat I wasnt really trying to make a broad political statement. I just saw the numbers and regurgitated them. I didnt attach any political commentary to my numbers other than I was very surprised. I spent some of my youth in Arkansas so the simple minded part is probably dead on.
 

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Well I think the purple sequined sprayskirt would look just marvy with a pink kayak. :oops:
 

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the upper 5% of wage earners in the US pay 56% of all the federal taxes collected. The upper 50% pays 96% of the taxes. I never had any idea that it was that lopsided.
Expect to hear a lot of this tripe in the upcoming election season whilst the GOP tries to discredit Kerry for wanting to roll back the Bush tax cuts for those making $200K+. I don't doubt the numbers. But it's only half the story. Any honest discussion on the "fairness" of the distribution of tax burden needs to consider income distribution too (as long as we're taxing income).

So before you get all misty eyed about the plight of the rich in America, here's a nice graphical illustration to help wrap your mind around what "rich" really means in this country (be sure to zoom in and out)...

http://www.lcurve.org/

Now what the hell happened to all my snowpack??? :evil:
 

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gh said:
Uh, Tomcat I wasnt really trying to make a broad political statement. I just saw the numbers and regurgitated them. I didnt attach any political commentary to my numbers other than I was very surprised. I spent some of my youth in Arkansas so the simple minded part is probably dead on.
gh, that comment wasn't directed at you my friend.....sorry about stepping on toes. I was addressing all those who feel that they're paying too many taxes. I've been involved in this conversation before and you have to include all taxes when comparing and discussing. This was discussed by more educated/expert people than me on Boatertalk a few weeks ago and when you get into the facts and compare apples to apples, the rich are not paying more than anyone else in the big picture.

It's just seems that over the past couple of decades we've lost sight of what is important with too much emphasis on money money money....bigger bigger....more more. I guess I'm still too much of an old hippy to love money very much. Most of us live pretty damnn comfortable lives and complain too much about taxes. It's not the poor working man who is the problem but those who make plenty of money, have two homes, and then complain they don't have enough. I don't get it!! Again, never meant the simple-minded statement at you personally.



tomcat
 

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It's ok. I was just trying to get a dig in with the Ark comment. :D .
 

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tomcat said:
when you get into the facts and compare apples to apples, the rich are not paying more than anyone else in the big picture.
tomcat
Am I missing something? Isn't the very nature of a graduated tax system that those who earn more are taxed at a higher rate?
 

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snow is a melting...kerry got bush

the hell with taxes.... isn't that why we kicked out old german george? I think I am about up to here (pointing) with politicians, be they democrabbic or repulsicans... they lie period, and the lies follow the food chain on down..... bush gave us tax cuts, kerry gave us what? pretty hair? bush let jobs go overseas, kerry created jobs where? bush is dismantling environmental laws, kerry put which of them back together? it's all lip service. having lived in the great state of texas a couple times, and once in boston, it's all the same... one hand feeds the other, the good ol' boy network... only the accent is different....one drinks tekillya, the other just drinks period...


anyhoo... how about that Animas river? nice flow so early on...hope it lasts
 
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