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Discussion Starter #1
I finally found some time and materials to get started on my snout rig frame. I am going to build it out of 6061 T6 1.5" Sch40 pipe. It will probable be mostly TIG welded but might use the spool gun I bought if I can get it dialed in.

I have included a picture of my rough sketch for dimension so you can get an idea of what the final produce should look likes, and some screen shots of the model I build to design it.
 

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Nice setup, nice shop. Great selection of alloy for your intended use, perfect actually. Skip the spoolgun, stick with TIG. The MIG process for AL is a spray arc process, very touchy to begin with, would be super hard to control penetration welding pipe together not to mention the out of position welding aspect of it. Your welds look pretty decent from what I can see, if it ain't broke, don't fix it LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Nice setup, nice shop. Great selection of alloy for your intended use, perfect actually. Skip the spoolgun, stick with TIG. The MIG process for AL is a spray arc process, very touchy to begin with, would be super hard to control penetration welding pipe together not to mention the out of position welding aspect of it. Your welds look pretty decent from what I can see, if it ain't broke, don't fix it LOL.
Agreed, just bought the spool gun to try it out to see how it works and was not overly impressed with the few minutes I was playing with it. It does not seem like a good option for pipe, lots of spatter and no penetration, the test welds I did broke with very little effort and did not penetrate the base material at all. I was hoping I could save some time with MIG but the quality is no where near what I need.


TIG it is!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The ramp to walk on seems like a good idea for kids, dogs, or old folk, but where do you store it while in flight?
Still trying to figure that out, the ramp design is telescoping so it is not as long as it seams. The idea is to some how incorporate the ramp into the frame as another duel purpose feature like a hatch cover or something but the details will get worked out once the frame is built and I can see it all IRL.
 

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Still trying to figure that out, the ramp design is telescoping so it is not as long as it seams. The idea is to some how incorporate the ramp into the frame as another duel purpose feature like a hatch cover or something but the details will get worked out once the frame is built and I can see it all IRL.

Mine straps to the port side tube. Not incorporated into anything but very out of the way. And does not have to be moved when not used.
 

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We rented this snout from PRO back in 2000, the front dropped down into a ramp, when lifted there was a pipe that went thru the stanchions on the sides of the ramp, 2 simple straps around the tubes held it in place when underway.

Super slick way to put a ramp on, easy to use although it was a tad on the heavy side, but down in an instant and right back up, allows for some additional storage space as well.
 

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That is so cool, I can't wait till you get that bad boy on the water. Those big iron rigs always add a new dimension, in river running experience. Always nice to have one in your quiver. Have fun.
 

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You SOB's, now I am searching the .gov auction sites daily for a doughnut or some dick tubes


Looks like a cool build, eager to see it progress
 

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Discussion Starter #10
First off I want to say thanks for the support and specifically to a couple Buzzards that reach out personally with design tips and guidance. I really appreciate it.

I made some progress last weekend on the Snout frame, I have included some progress pics below.

At the moment I am really putting in some effort into the structural design and overall layout. This is hard to do since I have not run a snout yet or been on one fully rigged so I am trying to figure our the proper "cargo area" depth.

There are a lot of consideration to go over with the depth of the frame. If I go deep enough to get the coolers and a hatch cover it might be too low to the water and will be in the range to hit rocks with cross members. If I go too high I won't have a flat deck between the side rails and wont be able to get a hatch cover over it. Also the deeper I go will help with the transom and motor mount height, which is really low at the moment (~5" above the floor). Currently I have 20" Between the top and bottom rails which gives me about 22" clear for storage and my cooler is 21" high, which I hope will still be enough room to get a hatch cover over the top of the cargo hold.

Also I got a tip from a Buzzards to put the sheet metal cargo floor under the frame so I would have a flat bottom to eliminate potential snag points on the frame which is a great idea but if I do that It will make loading boat difficult. Having the tubing above the floor I would have to layout cross members to fit coolers which would limit the overall flexibility of the boat. I would almost have to do two floors to facilitate easy loading and a clean flat hull. I am also concerned that if I put the floor under the frame that I will be relying too much on the welds of the sheet metal and that would increase the possibilities of a failure. As a compromise I am going to put the floor on top of the frame and add extra gussets (for lack of a better term) on the cross bars underneath as a kind of skid plate.

I started to build the transom area as well, you can see in the pictures that I have coped a piece of aluminum channel into the stern are of the frame. I am planning on using a 6" aluminum channel between the two uprights for the actual transom and motor mount. That will be infilled with some treated lumber to get a solid area to mount the motor and jack plate.

I am also working out the cross bracing and reinforcement that will be needed. You can see in the pics that I have cut a lot of the uprights to connect the upper and lower rails, next step is to cut the horizontal cross member to match the uprights and then I will cut diagonal/shear bracing to stiffen up the frame. I am planning on designing this like a "truss' with lots of cross bracing to carry the load.

Hope you all had a great New Year and looking forward to BIG water this spring!

Josh.

(***Disclaimer: I am horrific at spelling and grammar so if you see an error great. Keep it to yourself, I don't give a shit!***)
 

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We rented this snout from PRO back in 2000, the front dropped down into a ramp, when lifted there was a pipe that went thru the stanchions on the sides of the ramp, 2 simple straps around the tubes held it in place when underway.

Super slick way to put a ramp on, easy to use although it was a tad on the heavy side, but down in an instant and right back up, allows for some additional storage space as well.
This is the design im working on for my 2nd snout. I've got sketches but your photo really helps. Thank you sir.
 

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You're welcome, I can likely scare up some more if it'd help. It was a really well thought out Waterman Welding frame, and I really fell in love with the engineering behind it. About the only thing I don't have a photo of I think is the Jack Ass. It too was a work of art, never saw one that lifted that high, or was so easy to use. The downside was a pipe sticking up to operate it, I saw a way you could have put it on a pedal, but never pursued it past the mental proof of concept stage.
 

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I ran the floor-support pipes length-wise in my snout. The floor is expanded metal lath tack-welded to the between-tube frame pipes and the longitudinal center pipes. The advantage of this is that when you take big water, it sluices through instantly, leaving you as maneuverable as ever; and it does not pour out by going back over you and your motor. The disadvantage is that water splashes up onto your feet and lower legs when you are motoring. I solved this with a piece of raft fabric back in the motor well.


You can get some increases both in speed and maneuverability by putting an inflatable kayak under your floor, up forward. This under-boat will have a very hard life, and should not be counted on as a trip toy or spare boat.



Your rig is apparently designed to live on a trailer. Mine was designed to break down between trips, so mine has 3 frame baskets which nest for storage.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I ran the floor-support pipes length-wise in my snout. The floor is expanded metal lath tack-welded to the between-tube frame pipes and the longitudinal center pipes. The advantage of this is that when you take big water, it sluices through instantly, leaving you as maneuverable as ever; and it does not pour out by going back over you and your motor. The disadvantage is that water splashes up onto your feet and lower legs when you are motoring. I solved this with a piece of raft fabric back in the motor well.


You can get some increases both in speed and maneuverability by putting an inflatable kayak under your floor, up forward. This under-boat will have a very hard life, and should not be counted on as a trip toy or spare boat.



Your rig is apparently designed to live on a trailer. Mine was designed to break down between trips, so mine has 3 frame baskets which nest for storage.
I was kicking around the idea of using expanded metal for the floor of the cargo area to save weight. Great to hear that it has worked out for you. If I do, i would still do a solid sheet in the captains bay just to keep the splashes down. I have not rowed too many cat's but the ones I have you always seem to get wet unnecessarily.

I don't get the kayak under the floor idea. How does that help?

Yes, mine will live on a trailer. For the first frame I want to build it robust and foolproof. Once I get some miles on it and figure out what I do and do not like I will modify the design. I would be nice to be able to break it down so might try that for the next frame.
 

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Nice rigs! As for the ramp portion of the discussion, would ~7 feet be too short? If not, it seems you could have a ramp do double duty as an emergency backboard by routering in some slots for straps and hand-holds.

-AH
 

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Nice rigs! As for the ramp portion of the discussion, would ~7 feet be too short? If not, it seems you could have a ramp do double duty as an emergency backboard by routering in some slots for straps and hand-holds.

-AH
That would be one heavy and wide backboard !!!

With the spinal restriction protocols in EMS having changed 2 years ago, we almost never backboard a patient these days, on the river were I to need spinal restriction, I'd taco the patient in a paco pad and straps.
 

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If I do, i would still do a solid sheet in the captains bay just to keep the splashes down. I have not rowed too many cat's but the ones I have you always seem to get wet unnecessarily.
I didn't make my cat's floor completely solid, but it's not far from solid. I have large sealed marine grade plywood sheets with holes for mounting and drainage. Those cover each bay minus my dry box's bay which leaves a 1.5-2 inch gap in the captains bay. I hear you on the splashes that might come from that and inherent risk of stuff falling thru, but sometimes those are good.
A random floor cleaning in a rapid.
A place to fill the water gun without lunging over the side.
A splash reminder that you ARE in a big rapid.
A reminder to keep small objects stowed away so they don't go swimming/sinking.
A place to discreetly poor the nasty drink you didn't want but that other guy insists you drink.
A place for the pee to drain.
A place to see/hear what's happening under the boat(In my case I intentionally ran over sideways and straddled a "smooth" rock on the right side of the island in HHM to rescue a boater stranded on the island. That little gap gave me the ability to see progress when pulling the upriver tube off the rock)

But this is merely my design. Not yours. Probably many advantages to welding in a full sheet.
 

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These are the floor plates and tiedown fixtures for my big cat. Solid to lash to, solid to stand on, and drained quickly.

Yeah, I had cheap access to aluminum plate, and a whole afternoon in my garage to drill holes. Marshal would have done it in one-tenth the time....

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
 

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