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Maggie Dvorak | Facebook

Maggie the river dog, has got her papers that have allowed her to go on the Green River in Utah (Desolation and Gray Canyons) where currently dogs are not allowed (they are now drilling for oil there, but no dog poop!) due to her "therapy dog" status.

I am curious if anyone has used these credentials to take a river dog on the Grand in recent years. Need to get some feedback asap, as our launch date is nearing, and if much paperwork is needed then that process needs to begin post haste. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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Hi,

Page five of the regulations says, "P. Pets - No cats, dogs, or other pets are permitted on a raft trip."

But in view of the post immediately above, I'd have the permit holder call the river office and ask them if service animals are excepted. That's the only way to get an authoritative answer.

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips
 

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The problem is if the dog therapy fails an expensive helicopter ride out is needed. That expense is on the shoulder of the NPS.... That expense is passed on to the tax payer..... The NPS is usually unwilling to take that chance.
 

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Taking your dog down the Grand is stupid and irresponsible. If you aren't of sound enough mental health to be without your "therapy dog" you sure as hell don't belong on a 3 week river trip.

How about accepting the rules, understanding why the rules are there, and not trying to scam the system for your dog. You get to run the Colorado, that makes you special enough. The fact that the dog has a Facebook page already makes me wonder about the owner....
 

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Taking your dog down the Grand is stupid and irresponsible. If you aren't of sound enough mental health to be without your "therapy dog" you sure as hell don't belong on a 3 week river trip.

How about accepting the rules, understanding why the rules are there, and not trying to scam the system for your dog. You get to run the Colorado, that makes you special enough. The fact that the dog has a Facebook page already makes me wonder about the owner....
Second this. The use of real service dogs, such as the blind use is valid. Having a fuzzy friend who loves you unconditionally is not real therapy and is just a scam to bypass the rules. I have friends who did this same thing in their dog free condominium association. Their "therapy dog" is an untrained pet, nothing more.
 

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Maggie Dvorak | Facebook

Maggie the river dog, has got her papers that have allowed her to go on the Green River in Utah (Desolation and Gray Canyons) where currently dogs are not allowed (they are now drilling for oil there, but no dog poop!) due to her "therapy dog" status.

I am curious if anyone has used these credentials to take a river dog on the Grand in recent years. Need to get some feedback asap, as our launch date is nearing, and if much paperwork is needed then that process needs to begin post haste. Thanks for your thoughts.
Please obey the rules and just leave your dog home for that trip.
 

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Second this. The use of real service dogs, such as the blind use is valid. Having a fuzzy friend who loves you unconditionally is not real therapy and is just a scam to bypass the rules. I have friends who did this same thing in their dog free condominium association. Their "therapy dog" is an untrained pet, nothing more.
All certified therapy dogs are service dogs. It's just a different name for the same thing. A seeing eye dog is just one type of service/therapy dog. There are many types of service dogs for different physical disabilities. And "therapy" doesn't necessarily mean "mental health therapy." Certified Service dogs are not pets, they are working dogs that serve a particular purpose for a person with a disability. I have no knowledge as to whether they are allowed on the GC or not, just wanted folks to know a little bit more about the subject before they weigh in on it. There may be folks who perpetuate a scam with a dog that isn't truly a trained & certified service animal.....that's a sad thing.
 

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All certified therapy dogs are service dogs. It's just a different name for the same thing. A seeing eye dog is just one type of service/therapy dog. There are many types of service dogs for different physical disabilities. And "therapy" doesn't necessarily mean "mental health therapy." Certified Service dogs are not pets, they are working dogs that serve a particular purpose for a person with a disability. I have no knowledge as to whether they are allowed on the GC or not, just wanted folks to know a little bit more about the subject before they weigh in on it. There may be folks who perpetuate a scam with a dog that isn't truly a trained & certified service animal.....that's a sad thing.
I would be interested to know what training Maggie has. I do not believe you are correct though in saying service and therapy dogs have equal standing Quoted from Wikipedia on "therapy dogs"

"Therapy dogs are not service or assistance dogs. Service dogs directly assist humans and have a legal right to accompany their owners in most areas. In the United States, service dogs are legally protected at the federal level by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. Therapy dogs do not provide direct assistance and are not mentioned in the Americans with Disabilities Act.[3] Institutions may invite, limit, or prohibit access by therapy dogs. If allowed, many institutions have rigorous requirements for therapy dogs."

There are service dogs, and psychiatric service dogs, which have full ADA compliance. Therapy dogs are not the same. Read this little article.Psychiatric Service Dogs... | Service Dog Central
 

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I would be interested to know what training Maggie has. I do not believe you are correct though in saying service and therapy dogs have equal standing Quoted from Wikipedia on "therapy dogs"

"Therapy dogs are not service or assistance dogs. Service dogs directly assist humans and have a legal right to accompany their owners in most areas. In the United States, service dogs are legally protected at the federal level by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. Therapy dogs do not provide direct assistance and are not mentioned in the Americans with Disabilities Act.[3] Institutions may invite, limit, or prohibit access by therapy dogs. If allowed, many institutions have rigorous requirements for therapy dogs."

There are service dogs, and psychiatric service dogs, which have full ADA compliance. Therapy dogs are not the same. Read this little article.Psychiatric Service Dogs... | Service Dog Central
I stand corrected. I have always heard the terms used interchangeably. I have learned something new today. Thanks. But neither service dogs nor therapy dogs are strictly pets. They are both specially trained to provide a service to humans (directly or indirectly). I would hope that people would respect the work that both groups of dogs do.
So I guess the question now becomes.....is Maggie a certified service dog that is ADA compliant, and if so, is she allowed to accompany her owner on the GC? Hopefully her owner will let us know what they find out?
 

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Need to get some feedback asap, as our launch date is nearing, and if much paperwork is needed then that process needs to begin post haste.
It doesn't matter what people on the Buzz think. If you have a legitmate need for a real service dog, call the Park Service. Only their opinion counts. And please let us know what they say.
 

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I was part of the original thread last year. Service Dogs are allowed but must be in 100% control. We were told that the River Ranger could dis-allow a service dog from launching if they had reason to believe it wasn't under control (ie. pooping/peeing without the owners command, leaving the owners side without being verbally released, not coming when called, etc.). There were no written guidelines as of last year but there may be something in writing now.

And I received two different answers to the question when I called the GC River office.
 

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I should say that if I have been insensitive to someone's legitimate health or ability needs, I apologize. However this post reads "I'm scamming the system to take my dog rafting" to me. Get a dog sitter like the rest of us do.
 

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I stand corrected. I have always heard the terms used interchangeably. I have learned something new today. Thanks. But neither service dogs nor therapy dogs are strictly pets. They are both specially trained to provide a service to humans (directly or indirectly). I would hope that people would respect the work that both groups of dogs do.
So I guess the question now becomes.....is Maggie a certified service dog that is ADA compliant, and if so, is she allowed to accompany her owner on the GC? Hopefully her owner will let us know what they find out?
I agree with you. These are highly trained animals, often costing 20-40 thousand dollars apiece. Their work is highly valued and should be respected. In doing some short google searches, I learned the only things that can be asked of someone is, 1)Is this a service animal? 2)What service does it provide? The phrase "service dog" is not interchangeable with "therapy dog", but many(most?) people would not question the difference at the risk of denying access as per the ADA rules. I would bet the Park Service has a definitive answer. Perhaps this issue/thread should be forwarded to them.

Maggie's owners, at the risk of invading your privacy, and feel free to tell me shove it, what is your disability, and why do you feel your dog should be allowed on the river. This is really about ADA access and not therapy.
 

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Hi,

If this is a serious inquiry, the problem is easily solved.

1. Call the River Office, get the person's name, ask what the criteria are, and ask what documentation will be required at the Ferry.

2. Ask that person to send you an email containing everything they've told you, and to send a copy to Dave Chapman at Lees Ferry.

3. Decide whether you have sufficient documentation; if you do, assemble it and bring it with you, along with the email from the River Office.

4. If your documentation doesn't meet whatever standards the Park has in every -- and I mean every -- way, find a dog-sitter. The last thing you want to have happen is to be at Lees Ferry, be denied the dog as a trip participant, and either drop off the trip, hurry up and find a place to board the dog in Page, or somehow get someone to come way out there, pick it up, and take it home.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
 

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I hope maggie's owner will follow through on the great advice from Rich. I also hope they will let the rest of us know the answers & info they find out. Maggie met the criteria for Deso (Dinosaur National Park), but will the answer be the same for the GC? Very interesting and informative thread.
 
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