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Riken Self Bailer Vs Avon Pro Bucket Boat

2K views 12 replies 8 participants last post by  MNichols 
#1 ·
I'm looking at two different boats of similar age and size. A 17' Riken hualapai self-bailer or a slightly older 16' Avon Pro bucket boat. Both are in pretty good shape given their age. No dry rot, no delamination of the floor. The Avon is probably in a little better condition. Pros and cons? The self-bailing is nice, but Avons are so reliable. What are your thoughts?
 
#2 ·
For me, it would depend on what my expected use case is. The harder and more continuous the whitewater, the more important self-bailing is. So if you're fishing pumphouse and floating the san juan, go for the bucket boat (and enjoy having dry feet!). If you're going to be running big water class III-IV (think Main Salmon), I'd lean towards the self-bailer or look at your options for converting the Avon (I have no idea if that's a real option or not).
 
#3 ·
Good points. I'm usually running Westwater, Salmon, Cataract, and the Green. But most of the rivers I will run do have pool and drop rapids that give plenty of time to bail.
 
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#5 ·
Definitely carry two buckets, redundancy at its finest. BLF is one I'm not familiar with, elaborate.
 
#7 ·
Have owned and run both... the Avon will likely outlast the Riken, blown floor baffles sooner or later. Not a fan of the design of the Hualapai floor with the front and rear section across the current, if you run light(ish) and don't wet them it handles fine. If not, you'll be last to camp.

The difference between Avon and Riken fabric is the "calendering" of the fabric, which is a fancy term for how the hypalon coating is forced into the weave. Avon (U.K.) ran their fabric through a bath and rollers, "impregnating" it. Riken (Japan, later Korea) "painted" the hypalon on one side only (inside). A lot of folks (Marshal!) think the Avon fabric from the 80's/90's and up to when they sold to Zodiac in mid- to late 2000's (? - I'd have to look it up, but that's approximately right date) is the best raft material ever manufactured. It is certainly durable and there are MANY examples to prove.

That said, the biggest factor extending life is taking care of your boat. DO NOT over-inflate, if you aren't confident in your ability to tell the difference between 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 psi then buy a gauge and learn. Your floor should NEVER run above 1.5 (early Hualapai's had no pressure relief valve, most did). Clean, dry and store properly - both boats are hypalon so they will roll easily, but if you can, store inflated (loosely - even just 1.0 psi will give shape and relieve stress on seams and baffles). Pay special attention to getting sand/mud/twigs/orgo material (leaves) OUT of the intersection of floor and tube - easiest to clean by deflating floor and leaving tubes inflated, get a hose in there and clean out best you can. This is a "full contact" procedure - you will get wet. But it's the area where any leak is a HUGE PITA to patch, so keep it clean and store dry. In the late 70's when all we ran was "bucket boats" part of the closing shop for the season ritual was sprinkling talcum powder in there as well...

Both boats will handle well if properly set up. I'm partial to boats with floors - instead of self-fillers - 'cuz they're faster/better handling and fully capable of anything a self-filler runs EXCEPT continuous fast Class IV/V (which is best run as day trips in paddle boats anyway). Good luck with your decision, the point is to run rivers.
 
#8 ·
Um, is there a third option? 30+ year old glued boats are cool and all, but how much longer before things start to fail? And a bucket boat? I've got to say, you need to expand your budget a bit, shrink the boat if you need to, and find a 20 year old Hyside at least!
 
#10 ·
My first boat was an Avon bucket. I ran a lot of class 3 and some harder stuff. I agree that the material is magnificent. Really liked it. My single biggest gripe was running it loaded with gear. It’s just hard to get all the water out. Impossible? It would get tail heavy (water ending up under the cargo floor) and ride ass down, killing my back ferry. Essentially causing me to have to eddy and jack up the rear to bail that unwanted weight out. I had to resort to really loading the nose up (and I’ll stop the first person who is going to suggest they prefer a slightly heavier nose, we are talking front plowing) to avoid this. Again I’m talking a heavily loaded gear scenario. It was a buzz kill. Day trips……with an able bodied passenger an a (2) 3 gallon square bucket…..no problem. Ran class a lot of 3-4 stuff. The runs you named involved gear hauling, get the self bailer
 
#12 ·
Bilge pump w/extra hose will get water anywhere... for the ultimate hands off, rig up a little battery powered pump (12V) that you can charge w/solar setup. Lots of options out there, go with minimum 3-5 gallons per minute - the more you spend the bigger the capacity, but you don't need to spend a lot to buy a unit that will do the job. Wire a switch into the circuit, flip it on when you enter a a rapid, remember to turn it off when you're dry... (you will likely hear the hum anyway).

Biggest issue with bilge pumps - any kind - is getting to the low spot as Greenwave77 said. But a little trial and error and you'll figure it out. Figure out how to affix the hose so it won't slop around, tape a strainer of some sort over the intake, and you're in business. The manual pumps with the short handle you can mount to frame sideboard work well, too.

For serious business, get a flexible feed bucket at the farmer's supply store. 2.5 or 3 gallon is plenty. Yes, most bailing was done with 5 gallon plastic buckets, but to get that last little bit you want a flexible rubber bucket (usually black).

Finally, learn the dry runs. Buddy where I store my boats has five Avons&Rikens, youngest is probably 30+ years old, and I run Cat with him 2 or 3X every year. Haven't seen him bail in a long time, and he refuses to run self-fillers.
 
#13 ·
Bilge pump w/extra hose will get water anywhere... for the ultimate hands off, rig up a little battery powered pump (12V) that you can charge w/solar setup. Lots of options out there, go with minimum 3-5 gallons per minute - the more you spend the bigger the capacity, but you don't need to spend a lot to buy a unit that will do the job. Wire a switch into the circuit, flip it on when you enter a a rapid, remember to turn it off when you're dry... (you will likely hear the hum anyway).

Biggest issue with bilge pumps - any kind - is getting to the low spot as Greenwave77 said. But a little trial and error and you'll figure it out. Figure out how to affix the hose so it won't slop around, tape a strainer of some sort over the intake, and you're in business. The manual pumps with the short handle you can mount to frame sideboard work well, too.

For serious business, get a flexible feed bucket at the farmer's supply store. 2.5 or 3 gallon is plenty. Yes, most bailing was done with 5 gallon plastic buckets, but to get that last little bit you want a flexible rubber bucket (usually black).

Finally, learn the dry runs. Buddy where I store my boats has five Avons&Rikens, youngest is probably 30+ years old, and I run Cat with him 2 or 3X every year. Haven't seen him bail in a long time, and he refuses to run self-fillers.
There was a guy years ago on the GCPBA yahoo group, that made a bow shaped unit with 2 pumps, and a battery. Was a pretty neat setup, one pump had a hose with a weight that went back to the rowers footwell, and the other one just sucked from the bow. A few folks bought them and replied that they worked great.
 
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