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Just heard about a right to float rally that some folks are planning for July 17th. Their plan is to lap the Middle Taylor all day and show everyone that Colorado's rivers are still free.

Lets see if we can make this big.

I know that I will go.
 

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God Amongst Men
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your cute little flyers have already been handed off to the local sherriffs, forest service reps, harmels, and the wilder. so expect a warm welcome. and when they start ticketing people left and right im going to be there beer in hand to laugh at all you dumbshits.

the folks on the wilder are bad, but you guys are worse. if you guys just let it be and dont make an issue then the landowners wont either. make an issue and you can expect them to raise the bar right behind you. if you think they are cracking down now, do your little "protest float", because after wards there will be a crackdown bigger than anything weve seen before.

this is just the perfect fuel the folks on the wilder need to further attempt to shut down access............................................................

But hey, its not your backyard, so who cares if it gets fucked, right? If its not out backyard then we dont care!!!
 

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From what I know there's no involvement by either AW of CW in this. If these groups are not involved, this is a really BAD idea to do without the organizations that have been working on Colorado access for years and have been successful in the past. Holding this rally could seriously undermine the effort these groups have put into the fight to date, or will put into it later. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know about and that if it were made public would be counterproductive for the cause. Please don't do this without involvement of AW and CW.
 

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^ well said Andy, VERY well said. the smart young lad who was representing AW at the Gunnison WW Fest and I talked about this issue for a little while, and he thinks its a terrible idea. Mass floats have happened in response to a number of conflicts, and in most cases, the mass float ends up causing more problems and making the landowners more angry. There is room to manuever here with these landowners, even if it isn't readily apparent to people out of the valley. but there is, believe me. there are lots of folks on the inside that are furiously trying to work out back door deals for both parties to be happy. but time is what we need now.

The thing that makes me laugh out loud about all of this is timing: theres no one around to protest to on the property right now except construction workers and cowhands! and they could care less if we're there or not. if you really want to make an issue of it, wait three years until there is actually houses built and rich people fishing, and then come down and make a point of it. at this point, all thats gonna see you is the construction boss or the ranch boss, and they will dutifully report to their higher ups, and will pass down a decree that further closes off access. a mass float is a lose lose all the way around right now!!
 

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Are you guys trying to upset the truce?

The last update I received from CW:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tuesday, June 15, 2010

CONTACT
Will Coyne, 720-308-7931, [email protected]

River Outfitters Claim Victory in Rafting Dispute, Withdraw Ballot Initiatives

Colorado boaters celebrated a long awaited victory today when Texas real estate developer Lewis Shaw officially backed off his quest to block boating next to his property on the Taylor River, near Gunnison. With the high profile dispute over floating rights complete, the Colorado River Outfitters Association (CROA) agreed to withdraw their four proposed “right-to-float” ballot measures and pledged to continue to discuss statewide solutions with stakeholders this summer.

“Today is a great day for boaters,” said CROA President Bob Hamel. “Now boaters on the Taylor can continue to float that beautiful river that they have been floating for decades.”

Two local rafting companies and Shaw’s attorneys came to a negotiated agreement this week over the terms of floating near Shaw’s property on the Taylor that will ensure floating continues without threat of lawsuit for years to come.

The dispute on the Taylor River began in December of 2009, when Shaw’s attorney sent a letter to two long-standing Taylor River rafting companies threatening legal action against rafters that floated past his property. The dispute gave rise to HB10 - 1188, a bill to clarify the rights of boaters to float Colorado’s rivers, and four subsequent proposed ballot measures promoted by rafters and anglers.

“With the Taylor River open for rafting, outfitters feel comfortable withdrawing our ballot measures this year so we can get back home to focus on our businesses”, explained Hamel.

After withdrawing their proposed ballot measures, the commercial rafting industry committed to participating in ongoing discussions around floating rights with Gov. Ritter and other stakeholders throughout the summer and fall.

“Commercial rafters are committed to being good neighbors to adjacent landowners and conscious stewards of Colorado’s rivers“, said Hamel. “We look forward to continuing conversations with landowners and other river enthusiasts about how best to ensure that Colorado’s rivers can be enjoyed by all.”
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Now what's to gain by going in there and rubbing this in their faces?
 

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I agree with Andy. Bad idea.

We floated through a few weeks ago from the upper to meet some beginners we were teaching on the lower because it was easier to float through than run a shuttle.

We saw several folks along the way both at Harmel's and the Wilder and we did the right thing and gave them plenty of room, stayed close together, and took very few paddle strokes going by. We exchanged simple waves and smiles with folks along the way.

Learn how to coexist. ;)
 

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I'll float with you! Waiting three years sounds like a bad idea. I'll be there laughing when Yeti gets busted for drinking in public.
 

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Yep, this is a bad idea, in my view.
One of the major concerns that landowners and legislators expressed in opposition to HB 1188, was that there are hoards of paddlers waiting in the wings to float on Colorado rivers, and that by granting a "right to float" there would be large groups floating thru private property regularly. This is simply not the case, as AW and CW communicated in Senate testimony, landowner meetings, etc. This demonstration will do only harm!

A demonstration float could:
1) prove the landowners concerns have standing
2) threaten a delicate truce on the Taylor, and
3) further complicate paddler-landowner relations on other rivers in the state ( Blue, Elk, Willow Creek, Uncompahgre, Arkansas, etc...) where access issues are burning.

I think a demonstration float would also undermine the efforts of paddling advocates like AW and CW to represent the general publics interests in ongoing access negotiations. If we, as paddlers, can't get on the same page, how will our efforts have any traction in the future?
A demonstration float at this time will only make things worse on so many levels. And for what - what's the point?
Call it off!
 

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Yep, this is a bad idea, in my view.
One of the major concerns that landowners and legislators expressed in opposition to HB 1188, was that there are hoards of paddlers waiting in the wings to float on Colorado rivers, and that by granting a "right to float" there would be large groups floating thru private property regularly. This is simply not the case, as AW and CW communicated in Senate testimony, landowner meetings, etc. This demonstration will do only harm!

A demonstration float could:
1) prove the landowners concerns have standing
2) threaten a delicate truce on the Taylor, and
3) further complicate paddler-landowner relations on other rivers in the state ( Blue, Elk, Willow Creek, Uncompahgre, Arkansas, etc...) where access issues are burning.

I think a demonstration float would also undermine the efforts of paddling advocates like AW and CW to represent the general publics interests in ongoing access negotiations. If we, as paddlers, can't get on the same page, how will our efforts have any traction in the future?
A demonstration float at this time will only make things worse on so many levels. And for what - what's the point?
Call it off!

Everyone who is thinking about going needs to listen to Nathan. AW does not want this to happen. It is going to hurt our cause.

CALL IT OFF!
 

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I've nothing much to add to the cogent arguments about why a "right to float" rally would probably do more harm than good to boating on the Taylor in particular and boating in general throughout Colorado, except that Andy H. is correct - Colorado Whitewater is not involved in this in any way.

Our next board meeting is on 7/14; I can't imagine that CW would endorse this type of action as a strategy to achieve better policies on boating rights in Colorado, when all available information is that it will have exactly the opposite effect.
 

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Seems like a bad idea:
-very end of the season
-truce in place
Let's let everyone cool off for the winter and see what spring brings.

Problem with these "protest floats" is everyone (both sides) show up with an "attitude", some will even be looking for a fight (again, both sides) add a little alcohol....again, just seems like a bad idea....why fuel the fires?

Let CW and AW do their thing, let the property owners realize they had nothing to gain by picking this fight.

Also: is the Taylor even at a boatable level???

Anybody up for Cross Mtn or Gore?

PS: Yeti, do you really think calling people that hold a different opinion than you do, "dumbshits", helps your cause?
 

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Whats the problem with floating this> we have "permission" now, right? or was that just for the outfitters....
My county has a history of letting boaters float as long as they don't touch the shore or the bottom. That's what I plan to do on the 17th.
 

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From what I know there's no involvement by either AW of CW in this. If these groups are not involved, this is a really BAD idea to do without the organizations that have been working on Colorado access for years and have been successful in the past. Holding this rally could seriously undermine the effort these groups have put into the fight to date, or will put into it later. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know about and that if it were made public would be counterproductive for the cause. Please don't do this without involvement of AW and CW.
Yeah, I'm sure Rosa Parks didn't have permission from any groups either.
 

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Yeah, I'm sure Rosa Parks didn't have permission from any groups either.
Seems like faulty logic. You have the right to float the Taylor now and people are floating it now. You don't need anyones permission so what's to protest? Why make an issue where none currently exists? Seems kinda odd.
 

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Seems like faulty logic. You have the right to float the Taylor now and people are floating it now. You don't need anyones permission so what's to protest? Why make an issue where none currently exists? Seems kinda odd.
Don't make me go and agree with you! Oops, too late. I agree.
 

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Whats the problem with floating this> we have "permission" now, right? or was that just for the outfitters....
My county has a history of letting boaters float as long as they don't touch the shore or the bottom. That's what I plan to do on the 17th.

Floating a river is one thing. Looking for a fight is completely different.

I'm not sure if you are aware of all the behind the scenes work it took this year to get to the point we are at now where the landowners backed off of their position that we were not allowed on the river at all. CW and AW put in countless hours on YOUR behalf meeting with everyone involved including Governor Ritter. Now you want to go out there and make them look like they were defending the rights of a bunch of clowns instead of responsible people who are going to respect the surrounding land owners and the river.

Everytime someone in our camp does something foolish like this it makes it that much harder for us to win the battles we need win to in the legislature next time an access issue comes up.

Float the Taylor all you want, but my advice would be to stay off it on the 17th because it makes life worse for everyone involved.
 

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CALL IT OFF!!! Why protest something that doesn't need to be protested? I fished the taylor last week with out a problem and had a great time. We even waved to the ranch boss and smiled and he smiled back. Just don't be a dumbass and touch bottom or the shore follow the rules. Stay away from the fisherman and try to move through there as fast as possible with out causing a seen. As of now we can float Don't F*CK it up.
 

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What a bunch of pussies... You claim to have the right to float but refuse to stand up for it? The attitudes displayed by some of you are the very same attitudes that have aided and abetted each and every thug, bully and dictator the world has ever known. When will it be enough? What will we have to loose before you put your big boy pants on?

To those that think there's no reason to protest, or nothing to be gained - You haven't been paying attention - this isn't over, not by a long shot. Lewis Shaw and his ilk have shifted the target to the public's back. They made peace with the commercial rafters and took a lot of the money and influence out of the game just to make the public an easier target.

Oh well, this is how these things usually go - a brave few charge in while the rest stand around like sheep at the slaughter. If you believe you have the right to float you'd better be willing to fight for it. I do, and I am.
 

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What a bunch of pussies... You claim to have the right to float but refuse to stand up for it? The attitudes displayed by some of you are the very same attitudes that have aided and abetted each and every thug, bully and dictator the world has ever known. When will it be enough? What will we have to loose before you put your big boy pants on?

To those that think there's no reason to protest, or nothing to be gained - You haven't been paying attention - this isn't over, not by a long shot. Lewis Shaw and his ilk have shifted the target to the public's back. They made peace with the commercial rafters and took a lot of the money and influence out of the game just to make the public an easier target.

Oh well, this is how these things usually go - a brave few charge in while the rest stand around like sheep at the slaughter. If you believe you have the right to float you'd better be willing to fight for it. I do, and I am.

I still fail to see what you are hoping to do on the 17th.

Are you trying to show solidarity? Are you looking for a fight? Are you just going to piss off some land owners? What makes what you are doing "brave"?

Maybe if I understood what exactly you were hoping to accomplish I wouldn't think you so foolish. Maybe....
 
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