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As a note on using ascenders on a mechanical pulling system.
Be aware of the type of ascender you are using, as a petzl or jumar type that utilizes teeth to grab the rope, these are great and designed for a single person to ascend a rope, but if you are using them on a loaded system and you have a failure in the system, think pulling a d ring that shocks the system, once the ascenders grab after that shock there is the potential for those teeth to cut the rope clean through. If you are going to use an ascender the better type is a gibbs ascender that uses grooves instead of teeth, but with the same scenario the gibbs can cut the outer sheath of a kenmantle rope, that is why almost all rescue teams utilize prusiks.
Plus prusiks are lighter.
 

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1+ to an arborists throw line. 180 ft of 1.8 mm line and a 500 lb breaking strength all on a little spool. We have used it with the Z-drag kit for years. I also have a small dog training dummy in the bag. Unspool the line on a rock, the beach etc so that it won't tangle as it is being thrown. Tie the end of the line to the haul line or land and the other to a stick or the dummy and swing it around to get some momentum 100+ feet is no problem (I worry about hitting someone with the log as I spin it overhead hence the dummy). Then use it to haul out the main line. Saves so much time, it small, cheap and easy to carry.

We also carry a come-a-long since we raft with lots of kids and not as many people to haul line...

A friend asked to borrow the z-drag last night so I sent him this picture... a good stick takes a long time to clean up.
zdrag.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
In swift water rescue training I’ve heard don’t exceed 9:1 as you start to risk gear failure, leading to potential personal injury. That’s 9 people on a single haul line with no mechanical advantage or 3 people on a z drag. How many of you have heard this? Follow it? Any horror stories of popping a d ring/anchor point? Hopefully there was upstream safety so downriver traffic had time to eddy between Triplett and Hell’s.

This thread is deviating from lost and found quite a bit but lots of good discussion. Any word on the original party getting out ok? Assuming no news is good news.
 

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We also carry a come-a-long since we raft with lots of kids and not as many people to haul line...
Amazon.com: Maasdam A-O Long Haul Rope Puller, No Rope, 3/4-Ton: Home Improvement is the Maasdam power pull, it's a rope puller that looks like a comealong. It'll pull on your rope without resetting or prussics... Have used it a couple times in gear recovery scenarios, pulled a "J" rig off of Big Red years ago with 300 feet of blue water rope. Mind you you need to use with static line, and not dymanic like a climbing rope. Worth every bit of $50 bucks, no steel cable, no resetting every 5 feet.. You can get them elsewhere too, just the first link that came up was Amazon.
 

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In swift water rescue training I’ve heard don’t exceed 9:1 as you start to risk gear failure, leading to potential personal injury. That’s 9 people on a single haul line with no mechanical advantage or 3 people on a z drag. How many of you have heard this? Follow it? Any horror stories of popping a d ring/anchor point?
Correct, and in a Z drag the weak link is the prussic or jumar etc. NEVER, except in a "No other way" situation would you tie to a "D" ring, always to the frame, and if no frame, then as many "D" rings as you can possibly locate. Have seen a "D" ring pop and all the gear fly back at the rescuers... No injuries, but there could have been.
 

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Correct, and in a Z drag the weak link is the prussic or jumar etc. NEVER, except in a "No other way" situation would you tie to a "D" ring, always to the frame, and if no frame, then as many "D" rings as you can possibly locate. Have seen a "D" ring pop and all the gear fly back at the rescuers... No injuries, but there could have been.
Yeah, I saw that the first time I ever went on a private raft float..... I've always heard that the chicken line is a good way to attach because it runs through multiple D-rings and distributes the force. thoughts?
 

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No expert by any means but I did do a rescue class recently and another refresher. Zero real world experience!. That said the expert's allways say to have multiple attachment points that share the load. The other big thing I remember them talking about is to use the waters force in aiding the recovery and that the angle of the "pull" may not be obvious at first? This guys videos seem pretty good? I tore a d ring loose with my trailer winch being a jackass so it's pretty hard to imagine just one would hold up to a z-line if it was really stuck. Dunno if the chicken lines best but it would "share" the load. Seems like these guys allways use geometry in their descions lol? Any rescue techs out there
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Yeah, I saw that the first time I ever went on a private raft float..... I've always heard that the chicken line is a good way to attach because it runs through multiple D-rings and distributes the force. thoughts?
Depends what your chicken line is made of. 1" webbing? Dope. Cheap poly rope from Home Depot? Nope. If you have 25' of 1" webbing and you can equalize it through at least 3 D rings, then you're probably good to go.

My setup has 1" webbing loops tied in each of the frame corners which make for great attachment points.
 

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Does anyone know if the owner got the boat back?

Do rangers ticket you for leaving your rig abandon in the middle of the river?
 

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Do rangers ticket you for leaving your rig abandon in the middle of the river?
If they didn't they probably should unless there were extenuating circumstances and really good reasons to abandon it beyond "we couldn't get it off with the equipment we had". Its shallow enough over there where it almost feels like you could get a bunch of people over there and just lift it off after de-rigging a bit. I usually lead the group and will often run it while the rest of the group watches from the scout and there is a nice area just below Huggy Bear to stop and watch the rest of the group come through.
 

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There was no way you could wade out there it was 2100cfs and it was flowing strong and very swift. We had a guy fall in trying to throw a rope to the ranger in the boat and he swam and that was 5ft off the shore.
 

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Yeah...I suppose you are right. How did they de-rig all the stuff off the boat then? Someone manage to row a boat up to it from the downstream side or something?

At least there was enough equipment left on the boat to be able to row it down to Echo Park (assuming it was still holding air and all that).
 

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Not totally sure about the derig. If they had a line on it they might have attached boxes and floated them off. The boat was in good shape. The Bimini not so much.
 

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Yeah, I saw that the first time I ever went on a private raft float..... I've always heard that the chicken line is a good way to attach because it runs through multiple D-rings and distributes the force. thoughts?
Well, in a nutshell, here's the deal. The chicken line is a last resort sort of thing before you start pulling off individual "D" rings one by one. If you took the time, and spent the money on hoopie (Tubular webbing), then yes. By taking the time, I'm talking about not just looping it thru each "D" ring, but actually putting a hitch into each individual "D" ring so the rope won't slide freely. The reason this is important in a rescue situation is, if you clip onto the "D" ring and this hasn't been done, it tends to "taco" the boat. Granted more so in a boat without a frame, such as a paddleboat, than in a rowframe attached to a raft. Secondly, it inhbits your ability to pull at a precise angle, which sometimes is the difference between 30 minutes of pulling on the ropes, and 6 hours of pulling on the ropes.
 

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I don't think there was a boatman in that boat when that happened. Also probably a small crew of only 2 to 3 boaters and a couple boats. They may not of had the equipment and/or horse power to free the boat. Why they decided to abandon their raft I don't understand. I would of stayed with my boat, because most boaters always have had each other's backs and always willing to help a fellow boater out no matter the situation, might cost you a few beers but what the hell.
 

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Amazon.com: Maasdam A-O Long Haul Rope Puller, No Rope, 3/4-Ton: Home Improvement is the Maasdam power pull, it's a rope puller that looks like a comealong. It'll pull on your rope without resetting or prussics... Have used it a couple times in gear recovery scenarios, pulled a "J" rig off of Big Red years ago with 300 feet of blue water rope. Mind you you need to use with static line, and not dymanic like a climbing rope. Worth every bit of $50 bucks, no steel cable, no resetting every 5 feet.. You can get them elsewhere too, just the first link that came up was Amazon.
The Maasdam rope puller is my 'go to' for pulling down trees, but I get slippage with wet ropes and smaller diameter ropes. If you intend to add this to your rescue kit, double check that it works with your wet rescue rope.
 

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I can say with certainty that it works with wet 11mm blue water static line...
 

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Sounds useful, like a grappling hook, sorta, but the reviews aren't all that great and its currently unavailable 😕

In all my years of boating and resultant predicaments, I cant think of one time that I wish that I'd have had a grappling hook...

My .02, your mileage may vary
 
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