[smiley_n_mt]

HUGE groan. I got my permit application in (whether I get to see it drawn or not, we'll see) and was working on my wife's when the website shutdown. Holy crap!
Here's the screenshot:

 

[Spindrift]

Yep. Happened to me right 0010 EST. Looking at a campground and then whamo, good thing I put in for my permits yesterday.

 

[yak1]

I'm waiting to 8am to find out if my CG reservations are going to be honored or I'm out in the cold (so to speak) for my 11 days I have reserved and paid for in the Everglades. This is the second time I've been shut out of the Parks. Although it sounds like I won't get charged with felony hiking or paddling if we go in..... maybe.

 

[iSki]

Groan

Our elected officials hard at work...

 

[LSB]

Fuckem! Time to poach.

 

[Infidien]

Interesting, since rec.gov it's a private business

 

[Andy H.]

Interesting, since rec.gov it's a private business

Over my career I've done a mix of private and government contract work cleaning up toxic waste sites.

Basically once the shutdown begins most government contractors are told not to expend any funds (do any work). So in the weeks prior, there's lots of uncertainty and stress, and lots of extra effort spent in the process of mothballing projects. With complex projects this can be a significant effort with flying people back home from remote field projects, making arrangements to store equipment, and so forth. And you have no certainty when the project can start back up.

Then the contractors have to sit idle during the shutdown and start back up once a funding measure gets passed. This all adds a lot of costs to projects due to lost productivity, attrition by gvt. and contractor employees and subsequent loss of institutional knowledge, and also places a heavy burden on the contractors serving the government.

Lots of projects are just cancelled in the shell game to fund inefficiency due to the shutdown and through the compromise process to get the government running again. This happened to my grad school research funding in 1996 when the government shutdown happened and I had to find a new project and funding source to continue.

-AH

 

[richp]

Hi Andy,

And if this runs true to past practice, all the "unessential" Federal employees who are not working will get paid anyway.

A further inefficiency, as this basically constitues a paid vacation for them.

Grrrr.

Rich Phillips

 

[Andy H.]

Hi Andy,

And if this runs true to past practice, all the "unessential" Federal employees who are not working will get paid anyway.

A further inefficiency, as this basically constitues a paid vacation for them.

Grrrr.

Rich Phillips

Rich, I beg to differ with the "paid vacation" characterization.

Unfortunately for many, they don't know that for certain, only that back-payment is in the hands of a congress and administration that's shown little but deep-seated contempt toward public servants, and I expect it's a pretty stressful period. I doubt they're booking trips to Disneyland and they've still got their bills to pay but the check in the pipeline may be the last for awhile.

-AH

 

[[email protected]]

I'm thinking the Rec. gov. will be up and running long before the permit season starts and if not before Jan 31st they will extend the application time. So I'm not too worried about the rafting season. If they are not up by March 20th I may have to slip onto a river without proper documentation in my pocket.

 

[kengore]

I notice that those responsible for the shut down are not effected, just the rest of us. Voters should demand that the first persons impacted by a government shut down are those who failed to pass a budget.

The entire congress should be escorted out of the building, the lights turned off and the doors locked. This public theater at the expense of tax payers must stop.

 

[richp]

Hi Andy,

Yeah, you are right -- not a vacation in the sense of doing major planned things. So I might have overstated my case.

But I was an "essential" employee who watched this dance occur in times past. And the history of every past shutdown --including the three week event in the 90s -- is that "furloughed" Federal employees got back pay for all the time they didn't work. How does that look to taxpayers?

I'll try again. If this isn't resolved by Monday, it's likely that some "nonessential" Federal employees on the Front Range will be making day-by-day decisions about where to ski during the work week, at the psychic cost of not knowing exactly when the retroactive check will arrive.

FWIW.

Rich

 

[Andy H.]

The entire congress should be escorted out of the building, the lights turned off and the doors locked. This public theater at the expense of tax payers must stop.

Unfortunately they have to gather someplace and hammer out a spending plan to get the doors open again. They've also done a good job of classifying lots of employees as "essential" or finding other ways to continue functions we use (air traffic controllers, TSA, law enforcement, Nat. Park staff, etc.) to keep things functioning so the relatively affluent part of the population doesn't feel an immediate pinch and get too outraged.

I'll try again. If this isn't resolved by Monday, it's likely that some "nonessential" Federal employees on the Front Range will be making day-by-day decisions about where to ski during the work week, at the psychic cost of not knowing exactly when the retroactive check will arrive.

Skiing or job hunting. As I mentioned, the administration and congress shown antipathy toward public servants (pay freezes, undermining the pension and benefit plans, etc.) and indeed the idea of having a functional government is an annoyance to many of their core constituents. And tradition and precedent have been broken by the current administration like no other. So I'd expect there's a lot more uncertainty than usual about whether those checks for back pay will arrive.

-AH

 

[LSB]

I just saw on CNN that president gump said to just leave the park gates unlocked so Yosemite is free admission right now. Might be a chance to paddle in Yellowstone....

 

[Schutzie]

So, are trips still launching at Lees' Ferry?
Or do we have a repeat of the shit show that took place with the last shut down?

 

[Will Amette]

Schutzie should read the thread from yesterday that announced GC is open to river runners.

 

[MountainmanPete]

Pack Raft sales

I wonder if pack raft sales increase during government shutdowns?

 

[[email protected]]

I wonder if pack raft sales increase during government shutdowns?

Now that's funny We need the input from some vendors on that.

 

[melted_ice]

I'm thinking the Rec. gov. will be up and running long before the permit season starts and if not before Jan 31st they will extend the application time. So I'm not too worried about the rafting season. If they are not up by March 20th I may have to slip onto a river without proper documentation in my pocket.

I think you're good to go. After all, we're shutdown to protect people that may have crossed the Rio Grande without proper documentation. And since politicians don't have double standards river use without documentation is now a precedent.

 

[restrac2000]

I know many non-essential federal employees who are like most Americans right now, living somewhere close to paycheck-to-paycheck. Not knowing when your next paycheck will arrive can be a major problem. If history is any predictor this won't last "long" but that could still many scrambling to make ends meet until backpay arrives.

Sadly, we seem prone to repeat this outcome no matter how often we learn it always cost us more money to the shutdown the government in the long run. I know I would love to see Continuing Resolutions become a thing of the past but I'm not holding my breathe.

Best of luck to those applying for permits this year. Hopefully rec.gov will be up and running soon.