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Kill the Rattlesnake or Let It Go

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If you have ever had to deal with a member of your party being bit by a rattler you all might have a different attitude. I have seen them hide in inconspicuous places, striking with no warning. Use caution in rattlesnake terrain. I almost lost a friend to one and did lose a great dog who had been my companion for a decade. I don't like to harm any creature, but I would rather see a dead snake than a dead friend or pet.
 
If you have ever had to deal with a member of your party being bit by a rattler you all might have a different attitude. I have seen them hide in inconspicuous places, striking with no warning. Use caution in rattlesnake terrain. I almost lost a friend to one and did lose a great dog who had been my companion for a decade. I don't like to harm any creature, but I would rather see a dead snake than a dead friend or pet.
I used to work as a wild land Fire Fighter.
Twice I killed Rattlers that were next to homes.
The multiple other times I left them alone.

In a river camp I would slice and dice.

A friend got bit by an Oregon rattler on the thumb. (He was not handling the snake.) His thumb swelled incredibly and eventually blew up, (literally), in a doctors face. It took a different great Doc to save it.
A key point here is the different toxicities of rattlers in different parts of the US. It should be noted that in the SW or Southern States that thumb injury could be death. Caveat. People do die in the NW but more often its lost fingers.

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This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States
 
If you have a rattlesnake hanging around your house and you have pets and kids...sure kill the snake.

But if you are in a wilderness area and you kill a snake or any other kind of wildlife you are just a asshole, plain and simple. Probably illegal too.
 
This is a heated topic in Oregon. Or at least between the people in Oregon I know. Many are on both sides. I am personally on the side of leave it alone and go about your business because that is easier then trying to kill and dispose of the snake. Others however carry guns and bird shot to kill them when they see them. A few guides on the Deschutes are in this camp. Honestly I understand their position. Often the snakes on the Deschutes are on or near paths used by many people and often people and kids that are in flip flops and have little understanding of the danger. People that kill in that area do it to avoid another person coming down that trail later and getting bit. If a snake has to die to save a child, dog or another adult I understand but I would not kill the snake myself.
 
I killed a rattler on the scout/portage trail at Zoom Flume in Browns Canyon (proposed wilderness) 2 years ago... guess I'm just an asshole. So be it.
Well… I guess you won't have wonder why your next dog/friend gets bit and knowing what your limitations should make life better. Unless I'm wrong and this was just a mercy killing to keep the snake out of the mining waste runoff ditch you call a river. Cheers
 
We had an experience with rattlers on Ruby / Horse Thief. We were 5 families, 7 kids under 7 years old and 2 dogs. We pulled into camp and one showed up as we set up. I got a stick and moved it back up river to the next cottonwoods group (ones with water bucket). I came back to camp and there was another making it's way through camp. I moved it to. We ate, and as it got dark, were trying to get kids in bed, when another came in to the kitchen area. This one would not be caught and moved. It was pined with an oar and the head chopped off. Did I like doing it, No. Western diamond backs are not an endangered species, so it was not illegal. I killed it on the basis that it was more dangerous in camp , at night than it would be for me to move it and risk being bitten by one that I did not see. If that makes me an asshole, then so be it. The safety of my family and friends trumps any belief in the wilderness / leave no trace ethic. I now believe that just as in river safety, every situation is different for different people.
 
I killed a rattler on the scout/portage trail at Zoom Flume in Browns Canyon (proposed wilderness) 2 years ago... guess I'm just an asshole. So be it.
I'm just saying...if the snake is near your house or hanging out in some heavily trammeled tourist area like Browns Canyon - kill the snake so it doesn't end up biting somebody. If your in a designated wilderness area or lightly used hiking trail just scare it away. If you need to kill every snake you see on sight then you should just stay out of the woods.
 
I think its funny that people are all up tight about killing rattle snakes. I would have never guessed! A lot of Buzzards in the thread are all "you have no respect for life" and shit. But truth is that their daily lives indirectly kill 100's of species and they don't even care because they distance themselves. They justify driving cars and floating plastic boats and cooking on propane stoves or using hydraulic electricity. Its complete bs. These people need to remember that when you start pointing your finger at people there are 3 more fingers on your own hand pointing right back at you. If you know what I mean???
 
I don't float on the rivers I retired. Have you been to the Ark? I lived in Twin Lakes for 3 years and as fun as the Ark may be it is also an ecological travesty. The head waters are a superfund site.
My last 2 weeks

Northgate

Elk

Yampa/Cross (soon to be fucked by Shell)

Poudre

Eagle (My favorite superfund site almost as dirty as the ark. watching it run orange is ruff)
 
not arguing. and yes ive paddled the ark quite abit. I come over indy pass and go past twin lakes... I am not informed about the ecological travesties... is there a link you could provide to help educate me?! I do know it had a rich mining history, so it would make sense that there is tailings and ecological impacts from this...

and that's funny, but I really don't believe you have retired from boating yet stay current with the buzz! lol
 
Well… I guess you won't have wonder why your next dog/friend gets bit and knowing what your limitations should make life better. Unless I'm wrong and this was just a mercy killing to keep the snake out of the mining waste runoff ditch you call a river. Cheers
In Russia, Chechnya and elsewhere, it is believed that if you kill a snake its mate will hunt you down. By some. Didn't know we had a similar belief here.
 
I think its funny that people are all up tight about killing rattle snakes. I would have never guessed! A lot of Buzzards in the thread are all "you have no respect for life" and shit. But truth is that their daily lives indirectly kill 100's of species and they don't even care because they distance themselves. They justify driving cars and floating plastic boats and cooking on propane stoves or using hydraulic electricity. Its complete bs. These people need to remember that when you start pointing your finger at people there are 3 more fingers on your own hand pointing right back at you. If you know what I mean???
Are you addressing AMERICANS?

Really.

Well, maybe just the ones who have mercenaries kill food for them that is sanitized in plastic.
Certainly not the Americans who can afford to drive to rivers and raft and don't think of themselves as among the wealthiest people that have ever lived and the huge imprint they make on the planet.

Time to go start the dishwasher.
 
We had an experience with rattlers on Ruby / Horse Thief. We were 5 families, 7 kids under 7 years old and 2 dogs. We pulled into camp and one showed up as we set up. I got a stick and moved it back up river to the next cottonwoods group (ones with water bucket). I came back to camp and there was another making it's way through camp. I moved it to. We ate, and as it got dark, were trying to get kids in bed, when another came in to the kitchen area. This one would not be caught and moved. It was pined with an oar and the head chopped off. Did I like doing it, No. Western diamond backs are not an endangered species, so it was not illegal. I killed it on the basis that it was more dangerous in camp , at night than it would be for me to move it and risk being bitten by one that I did not see. If that makes me an asshole, then so be it. The safety of my family and friends trumps any belief in the wilderness / leave no trace ethic. I now believe that just as in river safety, every situation is different for different people.
Western Diamondback? They don't have habitat in Colorado or Utah:

Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
Snakes of Colorado - Colorado Herping
Crotalus atrox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why this matters? Its pretty common for people to assume the worst possible outcome with rattlesnakes and in this case assuming its a western diamondback means confusing a local snake with one that does kill the most people in the US.

Only about 10 people a year die from snake bites in the US, not much of a concern. As well, even when bitten most people survive, though the toxins can leave short term and long term damage.

Most bites and deaths come from people who intentionally handle or provoke snakes. So actually killing a snake increases the risk of harm and potentially death to someone in your party. This is especially true for the most venomous of snakes in the country that tend to be very aggressive. Ironically these are not the ones most of us encounter.

Here is a case study of Utah deaths:

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/wnan/article/viewFile/28539/27002

(That is 5 rattlesnake deaths in Utah (though one was in AZ actually) over 91 years.)

Obviously, to each their own. But there is a lot of misunderstanding and poor education out there regarding which species are a major concern and its all too common for people to wrongly identify them.

And ironically....your group has a higher risk of someone dying from an undiagnosed allergy to bee stings than a snake bite. Talk about a worry on places like the Main Salmon (sarcasm)....even with twice as many deaths its still a minuscule risk. We've lost more people on rivers to alcohol recently then any of these concerns and we are rightfully not trying to eradicate from our journeys.

Phillip
 
I should have pointed out that the fatality stats from snakebites in the US are inherently inaccurate.

In the Bible Belt the Christian groups that handle snakes during worship skew the stats against southern snakes. Particularly because they often refuse medical care.

Numbers ..........
 
And ironically....your group has a higher risk of someone dying from an undiagnosed allergy to bee stings than a snake bite. Talk about a worry on places like the Main Salmon (sarcasm)....even with twice as many deaths its still a minuscule risk. We've lost more people on rivers to alcohol recently then any of these concerns and we are rightfully not trying to eradicate from our journeys.

Phillip

Hi.
I'm Bill and I kill yellow jackets on rivers too.


Hi Bill, Hi, Good to have you Bill .......

I do it in traps.
I have killed hundreds even in home made traps.


Baby steps Bill. Admission is enough this first meeting.

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That Bosch is great.
Time to HotTub with my spouse.
 
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