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Kill the Rattlesnake or Let It Go

Rattlesnakes; Kill or Let Live

32K views 122 replies 61 participants last post by  swimteam101 
If you have ever had to deal with a member of your party being bit by a rattler you all might have a different attitude. I have seen them hide in inconspicuous places, striking with no warning. Use caution in rattlesnake terrain. I almost lost a friend to one and did lose a great dog who had been my companion for a decade. I don't like to harm any creature, but I would rather see a dead snake than a dead friend or pet.
I used to work as a wild land Fire Fighter.
Twice I killed Rattlers that were next to homes.
The multiple other times I left them alone.

In a river camp I would slice and dice.

A friend got bit by an Oregon rattler on the thumb. (He was not handling the snake.) His thumb swelled incredibly and eventually blew up, (literally), in a doctors face. It took a different great Doc to save it.
A key point here is the different toxicities of rattlers in different parts of the US. It should be noted that in the SW or Southern States that thumb injury could be death. Caveat. People do die in the NW but more often its lost fingers.

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This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States
 
Well… I guess you won't have wonder why your next dog/friend gets bit and knowing what your limitations should make life better. Unless I'm wrong and this was just a mercy killing to keep the snake out of the mining waste runoff ditch you call a river. Cheers
In Russia, Chechnya and elsewhere, it is believed that if you kill a snake its mate will hunt you down. By some. Didn't know we had a similar belief here.
 
I think its funny that people are all up tight about killing rattle snakes. I would have never guessed! A lot of Buzzards in the thread are all "you have no respect for life" and shit. But truth is that their daily lives indirectly kill 100's of species and they don't even care because they distance themselves. They justify driving cars and floating plastic boats and cooking on propane stoves or using hydraulic electricity. Its complete bs. These people need to remember that when you start pointing your finger at people there are 3 more fingers on your own hand pointing right back at you. If you know what I mean???
Are you addressing AMERICANS?

Really.

Well, maybe just the ones who have mercenaries kill food for them that is sanitized in plastic.
Certainly not the Americans who can afford to drive to rivers and raft and don't think of themselves as among the wealthiest people that have ever lived and the huge imprint they make on the planet.

Time to go start the dishwasher.
 
I should have pointed out that the fatality stats from snakebites in the US are inherently inaccurate.

In the Bible Belt the Christian groups that handle snakes during worship skew the stats against southern snakes. Particularly because they often refuse medical care.

Numbers ..........
 
And ironically....your group has a higher risk of someone dying from an undiagnosed allergy to bee stings than a snake bite. Talk about a worry on places like the Main Salmon (sarcasm)....even with twice as many deaths its still a minuscule risk. We've lost more people on rivers to alcohol recently then any of these concerns and we are rightfully not trying to eradicate from our journeys.

Phillip

Hi.
I'm Bill and I kill yellow jackets on rivers too.


Hi Bill, Hi, Good to have you Bill .......

I do it in traps.
I have killed hundreds even in home made traps.


Baby steps Bill. Admission is enough this first meeting.

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That Bosch is great.
Time to HotTub with my spouse.
 
From the list you provided its easy to tease out the religious cases. Even with those gone the concern is largely limited to east of the Mississippi and SW US in Cali and AZ. But those are a handful of cases.
All venom is not created equal.

The Rattlers in the NW are primarily hemotoxic.

All pit vipers in the US have that plus nuero and cardio - toxic components.
The last two here are worse and more prominent in southern rattlers.

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When killing a poisonous snake there needs to be caution with disposal of the head. Dogs will dig them up.
 
On the Grande Ronde last week we avoided a campsite that was undeveloped.

It was flat and grassy. Dried grass about a foot high.
In a natural condition.

It makes more sense to use a campsite where the ground has been somewhat denuded by repetitive camping.
We like to think of ourselves as having no impact because we pack everything out. That is not true.

Trampling the vegetation is a safer camp. Snakewise.

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I disagree on the risk of killing a snake.
That can be done easily with a tool.
Handling the snake afterwards is the riskiest moment.

Just use an oar to place it in the fire.

(In South Carolina on a prescribed fire I took a dead copperhead, killed on a road by a vehicle, and with a shovel I placed the entire snake with some garbage being burned. I told everyone stay away at the briefing. Monitored it. It absolutely burned to competition. No fangs left, No nothing.
Trivia: S Carolina has a lot of roadside garbage to dispose of. Handy stuff.)
 
Clearly, some people do not belong out in the desert/woods/canyons. I once set up the groover in great spot. Set up the hand soap, toilet paper, reading material, the works. I did not see the Diamondback three-four feet away. The first camper to the groover did. Scream! We all rushed in, took pictures. Eventually the snake tired of the notoriety and left. No problems. Remember, we are guests in their home. Let them be.
Just as long as everyone does the same for all of God's Creatures.
YellowJackets too.

Remember that rule in your back yard.
Your title to property doesn't work with nature.

Rager Ranger Station had three rattlers in their day care back yard.
They didn't do the we're all in this together thing. They killed 'em.
 
From your comments it seems safe to conclude you have killed quite a few snakes....so I am curious:

When do you decide to kill one compared to when, if, you decide to let one live? Do you differentiate between venomous and non-venomous when killing? How many have you killed on rafting trips? I ask as someone who has encountered countless venomous snakes in my years of rafting and desert guiding (in and out of NPS units). Its just such a foreign concept to kill snakes to me and I have rarely run into people who go beyond the desire to do so. When I had clients I did have to talk people down and educate them but never had anyone actually kill one. I raft with a lot of ecologist so that may skew my experience a bit. That said, I have considerable fear of the local variety having been defensively attacked by at least. Never been bit yet but had two recent times a pygmy faded rattlesnake strike at me while hiking. Both times have left me shaken and to be honest rather changed. But never gone from there to warranting killing them.
I've killed two rattlers.
No other snakes.
I spent forty years as a wild land firefighter and I have a rough idea how many poisonous and non-poisonous snakes I've encountered. Easily over a hundred when including non-venomous snakes. Possibly approaching 200.
As mentioned in an earlier post I killed those two rattlers next to homes. That was the deciding factor. One was on the 1993 Malibu Fire near a decent set of homes. Two local residents were positive about that action but two co-workers were not.

I have run into numerous people, especially in the south and western rural settings who have no hesitation on killing poisonous snakes.
Only cruel kids who killed non-venomous is all I can remember hearing about. Like the kids who stomp cats to death.

Full disclosure;
I would have killed a water moccasin also in S Carolina near a home but he slithered into coffee mirky water and I was afraid to follow. They are fairly dark and he literally disappeared in one second.

I killed several lizards over the years trying to keep them in a screened wooden box. Flies, lettuce whatever. I failed.

I have picked up two non-venomous who peed on me.
Have never been struck at.
 
Lets see - snakes follow their prey (mice). Mice follow their prey (rafters who keep a sloppy camp). Add in a little Hanta virus and you have the makings of a good time. One the other hand, if you all would help by keeping cleaner camps, there would be fewer of all of these.
There are other snakes that consume mice.
I have no objection to eliminating both hazards in human occupied settings.
 
Corn Snake video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s2LyOW3bj8
goto about 1:55

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Diamondback Rattlesnake kills mouse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Hp-DCBjgQ
no waiting

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Cottonmouth eating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErLIBOVAeSc
anticipation

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Rattlesnake Bites Dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XALUHgzpo4o
" I know some people don't understand how I could just stand there and watch my dog kill this rattlesnake. "

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Cottonmouth vs Rattlesnake 01 - Cottonmouth eats Rattlesnake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ2l4owxC7s

Interesting side bar.
Cottonmouths will twitch their tale, similar to rattle snakes. In dry leaves it does come across as a warning get outta here buddy.

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5 People who Survived Deadly Snake Bites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8t38H-chJE



Just to relax anyone headed out on a float.
 
Sorry about tale vs tail and any other errors.

Funny story.
I was being sent home after a month detail on the Francis Marion. Snake central. A subtropical paradise for reptiles.

In the house the Gov provided I put up this beautiful snake poster just a couple days before I left. I understand it was ripped down two days after I left. Walking down that hall and seeing that poster just before bed ..........



You could get one of these to put up in your camp just to help with identification.
Is it just me or does Smokey seem more cautious?
 
The NCSB guys stopped to look over a live copperhead in the middle of the road.
Copperheads are beautiful.

Nobody had a tool and they were just looking it over before going in for the day.

The snake moved around and pretty soon it was under the pick-up.
It went up into the undercarriage.

They hopped in and drove back hitting every pothole then hoped out and went home without fessing up. Snake is still MIA.
 
That was funny! Unfortunately Magwa's knife took a long fall in vain and Magwa slept the long sleep.

FWIW I kill some and leave some, just depends on the situation. I have seen at least a dozen Prairie rattlers swimming the rivers of SW Montana so they definitely swim. One poor bastard had to be killed as he(maybe she, I don't know) kept trying to get into my buddies boat. Another event was when an idiot little brother of the same fellow cast his bugger at a rattler in the river and hooked it! After a smack upside the head he lost part of his fly line. I've seen plenty of dogs bit but never a human and I hope to keep it that way.
A friend was fishing from a boat in Louisiana.
His buddy saw a snake swimming and cast out and started to gently reel it in to see what it was.
It was a Cottonmouth and it came at them with some speed.
They went into egg beater mode with the oars.
They stayed in the boat somehow.
The snake was probably injured but they didn't stay around for triage.

Most of the time its a stupid guy that gets bit.
 
Here's one of those settings where its OK to kill a rattler. IMHO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpcDZbXslfw

Uploaded on Aug 27, 2008
Lian gets bitten by a western diamondback rattlesnake in Tucson Arizona whilst tending to a friends garden. The snake was about 4foot long, and bit her on two knuckles.
She needed over 20 vials of anti-venom.
Two months on, she still can't straighten her fingers.
 
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