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I feel like I may be opening a can of worms here, but what are some proper etiquette while rigging/de-rigging?

I ask as I had an interesting experience at the Cisco takeout this weekend. I pulled my boat in to an open spot at the ramp after completing a great first run of Westwater. Everyone at the take-out seemed to be moving efficiently and had a great attitude about it.

All the sudden, a large barge of commercial boats pulled up with their motor and immediately began shouting and berating all the boaters de-rigging. There was a nice line of boats patiently waiting on the sides of the ramp, but this commercial boatman began screaming that he had the right of way, and everyone needed to get their gear out of the way. He insisted that "if the ranger was here, he'd tell you all to get out of my way". Honestly, as a new boater I have no idea if he was in the right, but it doesn't quite make sense to me to leave a large open spot at all times for commercial boats. He then had someone grab the bus and trailer and pull it down the ramp, blocking many people in.

I don't get it. Was he right? Should everyone immediately move out of the way to accommodate a commercial trip? Seems like most of the boating community has been really great and friendly, but this guy from "Canyon Voyages" really ruined the cool vibe at the take-out. Needless to say, no one was in any rush to move efficiently after being harassed and berated by this guy.
 

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I think there is a pretty relevant thread in regards to this... I think it was about the Arkansas and one of the commercial companies down there.... pages and pages of ramp etiquette. Oh and there's a good spoof on that thread about the guys down in Durango.
 

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I believe proper etiquette is to point out that "the goat" is clearly visible at the Cisco takeout. Customers love the goat.
 

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Sounds like he was being a **** and needs punched in his mouth. Each group taking out can take one lane at the takeout. As long as everyone was not dragging there feet and fiddle fucken around he needed to wait his turn. If your not up to track him down and introduce him to the back of your hand you need to call the ranger office and let them know . Also call up the company he works for and make a complant.
 

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Look, it's easy to Monday Morning Quarter Back. The guide you are not-so-cryptically referring to is a long-time boatman with hundreds of WW trips under his belt (and is totally not an A$$hole). Having been on both the private and commercial side of the Cisco scene, the reality is what you might consider efficient at the end of your vacation is different from the efficiency needed to get your people home so you can clock out. They have to come back and do it all again tomorrow. Celebrating is fine, but leave a lane.

And he's right...if you guys were taking your time the ranger would have said to move your stuff to the side, let these guys back their trailer and be gone. I can't speak to or defend his tone, but it sounds like you gave him a lot of reason to be frustrated.

The ramp is the place to show up, pack up, and get out. Truly, congrats on a great first run, but the commercial guide who shows up behind you doesn't care that you successfully stayed black side down. He is focused on getting his people home and off the bus, because he doesn't get to celebrate his runs or "cool vibe" until he has shook their hand and walked away.

There's been a lot of dirt about commercial boaters on these forums this year, but the reality is these people have far more experience than almost any private boater on almost any stretch. Just because they are in business mode and not party mode doesn't mean they are a**holes. They are doing their job. From the sounds of it, the ramp was busy and unorganized. Canyon Voyages has some of the most competent and professional guides running that stretch. Give them the benefit of the doubt and save the party for later.
 

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The more I encounter commercial boat guide's the more I develop a bad opinion of them. For some reason they seem to think they own the river. We were running West Water a couple of week ago and a commercial trip lost two ladies in Skull. The ladies were trapped in the room of doom, and the commercial leader was yelling at them to swim back over to them. Thank god we pulled up and told them that was stupid and that they had to go get them. After two half ass attempt of going across to get them, me and friend rowed up skull and across to retrieve them. come to find out they had a motor rig with them. I know not all commercial guides are bad but seems to be a bad attitude attached to some of them.
 

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Emmielou - I don't care how you dress it up, if someone starts barking at me first being a pompous ass-hat instead of asking nicely, I am definitely going to call them out and tell him to kick rocks.


I wasn't there, and it annoys me when someone is lollygagging around. But no one had the right away and I'll be damned if someone comes at me screaming, and telling me to move my crap. I can give two shits if your a commercial company, or you don't celebrate a great trip with your customers, or your in a hurry to dump them off and get rid of them. If this scenario really happened, it was unprofessional period, no matter the profession. I don't care if you serve ice cream for a living, you don't act that way!


And then for you to say "but the reality is these people have far more experience than almost any private boater on almost any stretch" what an ignorant presumptions thing to say! Im guessing you were the guide screaming at everyone!?!?
 

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I was there and the guy was being a dic. It's a public ramp and the commercial groups can either wait or ask if they can jump ahead to get their group off the ramp. Demanding private boaters move and saying commercial trips have priority access is not the way to go about it.
 

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I think of the commercials similar to big rigs on the highway. They deserve some space and courtesy. I'd imagine it's hard to react 100 percent appropriately to every car that cuts them off. I haven't been boating long but have had great conversations at put ins as I ask about certain Rapids. Most all have been very friendly to me and where ever I find my self I try not to slow down a working man regardless of the industry. I don't work in the river trade but I do know how frustrating it is at my job if I'm being slowed down.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app
 

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Dfresh, I'm just presenting that there are two sides to every story. Maybe the OP is telling the whole truth that this guide jumped off his boat and immediately started yelling...but knowing my friend's demeanor (he is the godfather of my daughter), I highly doubt that is the case. I'll reiterate my point - one group's idea of efficient may not be another's, and another trip shouldn't have to wait around for 45 minutes when they can be in and out of the first group's way in 5.

Also, with regards to experience, let me restate how I meant to present that: A Westwater commercial boatman, running 4 trips a week, has more experience in Westwater (especially by September) than your average private boater *IN WESTWATER*. The OP said this was his first trip through there, so his idea of what is efficient at the Cisco ramp is probably totally different than someone who has run it almost daily, not counting HIS private trips, for almost 4 months this year alone.

Paul presented it great above. A lot private trips (that I've been part of) innocently forget that commercial guides are at work, not on vacation.
 

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Donkey Punch
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Well lets ask JPG87,
Is it possible that you may have misread the situation? Was the guide actually screaming at you guys? Were you guys maybe parting a little too hard at the put-in. I mean I get a little frustrated when people are farting around at the take out hogging all the lanes at the ramp and I have to sit there and pop a few more coldies and relax waiting for jack dicks to figure out how to organize their crap.
 

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…even worse when you have commercial customers on board and your cold one has to wait ;)
 

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Don't be slow and if you are move to the side. Common courtesy seems to have gone the way of common sense - not really all that common.

As a commercial WW guide I have seen plenty of private groups drinking at the ramp and taking up twice the space they should be. Even the most efficient private groups are not as good at getting off the ramp as guides are. Private groups probably have a different interpretation of what is too long and too much space.
 

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Donkey Punch
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Why even bring up drinking at the ramp?
You must be jealous cause your a guide and can't? And don't even say its bc your too busy being efficient! I have showed up where commercial companies were already at the ramp, and I have was able to have my gear de-rigged and loaded, leaving the ramp before they have left, with beer in hand while loading! Maybe even a little dancing involved!! Then I go to the parking lot and sleep off my drinking and dancing.


I'm tired of hearing how bad ass and efficient the guides are. Im pretty bad ass and efficient too, plus I have some sweet dance moves
 

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IMO, The Cisco ramp can EASILY accommodate 3 groups at any given time...One lane down the ramp per group is the best method unless you are POSITITVE no one else is coming for a while. If your group is spread out and taking up the whole ramp, then he had reason to be pissed. I'm not saying that screaming, from the get go, is appropriate. But if 1 or even 2 groups are dominating the ramp, I would ask folks to move/consolidate. Also, the ramp is for trailers and loading gear that has already been de-rigged. If you were taking up spots on the ramp just to de-rig...then that is a problem too. De-riggin should always be done off to the side unless it is simply not an option (other take-outs).
 

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I've only been at this 4 summers now, but here's what I've gleaned...

1. At takeout, get off the water and away from the ramp immediately, and de-rig way off to the side up in the parking lot. If you have to de-rig on the ramp based on how you haul your boat, don't do it directly on the ramp if you can help it.

2. Get on the water and away from the ramp immediately at put-in; if you need to rig gear or fly rods, don't do it directly on the ramp if you can help it, or better yet do it downstream a little ways away from the chaos if you can.

3. If someone isn't doing 1 or 2 and it's negatively affecting your experience, breathe through it, behave like a gentleman or a lady, and maybe ask the slower group if you can help. Stay calm.

We put in at pumphouse on Saturday. 2 private groups on the ramp were a mess, with 6 boats between them spread all the way across both lanes blocking them. We waited awhile with no progress, then I backed our boat halfway down the ramp, with a smile politely asked one of them if I could help, and I think that got the message across. We were on the water less then 10 minutes later, no feelings hurt, and rigging fly rods pulled over 100 yards downstream.

I've never had a negative interaction with a pro, though I assume some day I might. I hope to follow my own advice if that happens and stay calm and respectful, though I know that can be really difficult if the other person is being sh#tty.

River bliss: it's what we're all after.
 

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Typical my time is worth more than yours B.S.

As the other thread points out there are countless examples of commercials being less then efficient and less then professional. I think JPG87 points out a simple fact nicely asking will most likely result in people making room. Be a dick and well you’re a dick waiting your turn.

"We’ll be out of these 3 lanes and off this ramp in under 5 minutes, as soon as our trailer arrives." Signed Typical Guide
 
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