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Discussion Starter #1
At current flows what is more fun the Poudre or the Ark. I would probably run Upper Mish thru Bridges on the Poudre or Numbers thru Fraction on the Ark maybe Pine Creek, Clear Creek of the Ark or Browns.

What are ya'lls opinions.
 

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In my opinion, Ark without question. Numbers at this level can't be touched by the Poudre. Have fun wherever you decide to go!!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That was not the answer I was looking for. Unfortunately it looks like I am going to the Poudre. I'm sure it will still be fun I wanted to hit numbers at this level.
 

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Poudre rocks at this level. It’s non stop in your face read and run from the top of upper mish through the take out for Bridges. That run is probably my favorite in Colorado, though as a whole river the Ark takes the cake.

You won’t be disappointed, the in between stuff looks a lot smaller from the road than the water, just be ready for an exhausting trip on a fast moving river.

Oh yea, and don’t be a puss, punch Pineview right down the middle.
 

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Better answer Monday

Currently planning to run Stevens Down on Poudre Sat. and Pine Creek or Numbers through Fractions on Sunday... I think they'll both be great in their own ways, however I personally would choose #'s as I haven't seen it at this level before, and as you might have guessed by my user name, Love that river!!!
Enjoy!
Tim
 

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At current flows what is more fun the Poudre or the Ark. I would probably run Upper Mish thru Bridges on the Poudre or Numbers thru Fraction on the Ark maybe Pine Creek, Clear Creek of the Ark or Browns.

What are ya'lls opinions.
Given the flows for each, (for rafters) and taking into consideration the historical flows, I would say PineCreek, Numbers, Poudre, Browns. Gorge would be a different story but you didn't ask about that. The Poudre at 4+' is fairly challenging (I think) in anyone's book. but well below PC and #'s. Brown's is really fun above 2.5K- but not as challenging as the Poudre at 4'.
but hey, let's get real- it's a hell of a year
wayne
 

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Poudre without a doubt. There is no river run in Colorado that compared to Stevens Down, espically at 4 ft. The Poudre is back to back continuous rapids all the way down, a great run at any time.
 

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Seriously, you guys are blowing up the numbers like its gods gift to boating. The numbers blows goats, I have proof. Now those that know me, know my hatred for the # but I know so many people that get to # 4 (whatever has the little drop in it) and think they are at number 1.

As for the ark being better as a whole that is ridiculous. The ark has a way longer boatable stretch and it still sucks compared to the Poudre. Might I remind you all of a little run called the Big South. That right there makes it better than anythin the arks got. But the Poudre has quality class I-VI.

The point being you are going to have a great time on the Poudre. Tele's right Stevens down is the best class IV run I have ran
 

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Tastes Great!-----Less Filling!
Tastes Great!-----Less Filling!
Tastes Great!-----Less Filling!
Tastes Great!-----Less Filling!
Tastes Great!-----Less Filling!
Tastes Great!-----Less Filling!
Tastes Great!-----Less Filling!
 

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Pouder better than the Ark??? Time for some shit talkin!!

The ARK!! Hands down... Sooo much better than the fouder...

So ya dont like the numbers.. Well come and join us for a surf session at one and a half tonight... No wave even close to that wave on the pouder to compare it to.. The numbers at these flows and higher is world class surfin on natural waves...

Then you have the bv/salida playspots.. ALL 5 are great at this level.. Hey how is that spot goin on the pouder??? ;) ;) Well maybe someday boys...

With all the options and the with this years water the pouder cant hold a candle to the ark... The Ark will be close to 3000 cfs on July 1 and over 1500 on Aug 1.... Again the pouder comes up short...

Creekin... Well I got to admit there are some good creeks up there but not one like Lake... If the numbers is not continuous enough for ya - come up and join us for a run of Lake tonight... Again nothing around the pouffer even close to Lake at 6+feet (1800 cfs)!! We will still be runnin the bottom four well into Aug. this year!! Here on the ark we also have another 3 miles of continuous class v- or clear creek for a back up.... This year I wll get in easily over 30 days on LOCAL creeks not bad...

With gas the way it is nice to have all this less than 25 miles from my house and most are with in 10 miles... Nothing like walkin up and surfin the BV spots at lunch break..:D

The pouder is a nice little front "ranger" river/dranage but better than the Ark... Well just keep tellin yourself that..
 

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Pouder better than the Ark??? Time for some shit talkin!!

The ARK!! Hands down... Sooo much better than the fouder...

So ya dont like the numbers.. Well come and join us for a surf session at one and a half tonight... No wave even close to that wave on the pouder to compare it to.. The numbers at these flows and higher is world class surfin on natural waves...

Then you have the bv/salida playspots.. ALL 5 are great at this level.. Hey how is that spot goin on the pouder??? ;) ;) Well maybe someday boys...

With all the options and the with this years water the pouder cant hold a candle to the ark... The Ark will be close to 3000 cfs on July 1 and over 1500 on Aug 1.... Again the pouder comes up short...

Creekin... Well I got to admit there are some good creeks up there but not one like Lake... If the numbers is not continuous enough for ya - come up and join us for a run of Lake tonight... Again nothing around the pouffer even close to Lake at 6+feet (1800 cfs)!! We will still be runnin the bottom four well into Aug. this year!! Here on the ark we also have another 3 miles of continuous class v- or clear creek for a back up.... This year I wll get in easily over 30 days on LOCAL creeks not bad...

With gas the way it is nice to have all this less than 25 miles from my house and most are with in 10 miles... Nothing like walkin up and surfin the BV spots at lunch break..:D

The pouder is a nice little front "ranger" river/dranage but better than the Ark... Well just keep tellin yourself that..
First of all, playboating is for 4yr olds who can't stay in rafts.

Second, right now the fluffy muffin is in and you can surf that all day and throw blunt and al that stupid shit that people think is cool on it.

Third, you are bring in man-made structures in to the equation, that tells you something right there. "The #'s suck so bad that we had to build a un-natural feature just to make this river cool"

Are you really going to compare Lake creek and Clear Creek to Spencer's and the Big South? Come on you know your stretching it, and besides those are tribs right? Not necessarily the Ark itself. Notice I didn't used Joe Wright in my argument because its technically not the Poudre, but its still better than Clear Creek.

I will give you that your season runs longer, but once again it must be nice having man-made structures taking care of your river.

Oh, and the Ark does have bumper boats I forgot about that. Very scenic. You got us poudre boys there.

I would like to come run Lake though so I will take you up on your offer one of these days. Didn't You say that Paralyzer got messed up this year?
 

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If I may... the Ark is, well the Ark - about 5,000 male raft guides camping out of their trucks with over inflated egos trying to learn how to kayak. About six female raft guides, four of which are Amazonian in size, one who has a good body, but hairy armpits and then one who is close enough to attractive that every time she goes anywhere she is hounded by at least fifteen of said male raft guides. A few pro kayakers and other assorted bros live their and they truly do own the playspots and route Lake Creek when it's high... but again, any woman who is not a raft guide is either married or engaged. As for comparing Clear Creek and Lake Creek with the Big South and Joe Wright/Spencer, JV I think you are either A) smoking crack or B) you've never left Chaffee County long enough to run the best creek run in the state.

As for the Numbers, they are OK but I believe CRC mentions something about the middle narrows being the best class IV in the state. Then u got the rest of the narrows if u got the nuts. At high flow I would say Upper Mishawaka is pretty comparable to the #s. Maybe a step down in difficulty but the scenery is better. If you keep going to Pineview you get a rapid which is steeper and higher quality then anything on the #'s. And don't even say Pine Creek because it's just a wave train with a big hole that must be missed, not really a five star rapid - like say lower narrows or whiteline. The playspots on the Poudre are lacking but playboating is a lot like laser masturbating without an internet connection and when you're done paddling there is the mishawaka + a real town w/good food and lot's of attractive young woman a la CSU. Unless you are looking to join the rodeo circuit of the late 90's, the Poudre is the spot.
 

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If I may... the Ark is, well the Ark - about 5,000 male raft guides camping out of their trucks with over inflated egos trying to learn how to kayak. About six female raft guides, four of which are Amazonian in size, one who has a good body, but hairy armpits and then one who is close enough to attractive that every time she goes anywhere she is hounded by at least fifteen of said male raft guides. A few pro kayakers and other assorted bros live their and they truly do own the playspots and route Lake Creek when it's high... but again, any woman who is not a raft guide is either married or engaged. As for comparing Clear Creek and Lake Creek with the Big South and Joe Wright/Spencer, JV I think you are either A) smoking crack or B) you've never left Chaffee County long enough to run the best creek run in the state.

As for the Numbers, they are OK but I believe CRC mentions something about the middle narrows being the best class IV in the state. Then u got the rest of the narrows if u got the nuts. At high flow I would say Upper Mishawaka is pretty comparable to the #s. Maybe a step down in difficulty but the scenery is better. If you keep going to Pineview you get a rapid which is steeper and higher quality then anything on the #'s. And don't even say Pine Creek because it's just a wave train with a big hole that must be missed, not really a five star rapid - like say lower narrows or whiteline. The playspots on the Poudre are lacking but playboating is a lot like laser masturbating without an internet connection and when you're done paddling there is the mishawaka + a real town w/good food and lot's of attractive young woman a la CSU. Unless you are looking to join the rodeo circuit of the late 90's, the Poudre is the spot.
This is better than talkin shit with the slaiver boys anyday!!! You have me laughin my ass off!!! I had to retort..

Ok I would rather have 5000 raft guides anyday over say 1,000,000 gapers in the genral area, the traffic jams, and in genral city life - I have done it, dont like it, and you can keep it... Lots of rats runnin to cubicles is what I see... Then you all look to friday at 2 pm when the bell rings and the race is on at that point... Not sure why people do it but again whatever floats your boat..

So i guess crusin for chicks at the mall is what you guys do... This is cool i guess.. Up here there is gettin to be quite a few real and cute ladies that dont want or need the rat race... Most of the boys that I know have no problems in the area but I can see where a transplant ranger would... :D

Now you are right big south is the shat so lets get on that big south for a after work run tonight leavin about 6pm... Oh yea that is not a every day run... So when does the gate open this year bra... The mish is boring and if you are in the area the narrows are worth it... If you are already in the area..

You are right on clear creek it is best for a laps, bonfires, BBQ, and the yearly 6 pack sneak... Most are just not prepaired for the six lap feast - it is much harder than you think!!!

Funny that "rangers" blow up my PM up when Lake hits 300... I just guess pittfully low flows is what you get used to down on the "range"... Come up this week for a lower 4 session at 5+ feet... Middle at the paralyzer, kiss me gets easier, and the line at the caldron is about a hair width wide.. Yea paralyzer did change - the right sneak got some balls dropped in there this winter - so middle or left is the only way... Or you could wait until 300 when you can run it all in ducky backwards..

Funny that "bro's" from saliva dont have creekers and "city dudes" from the pouder evidently dont have playboats... Kinda bass ackward when you think about it.. Never figured out these "clicks" in boating but to each their own.. Well if you got a playboat around bring her up for a play run of upper lake.. Good spots up there and anyone can do the tricks or do the run but only a few are doing the tricks on this real run...

As far as playboating and the lameness of it... Well come over and just drop into one and a half a couple of times or big drop.. Not for most 4 year olds rafting or hard core creeker types from the front range... On your 10th round of unintendo's and just before your breath runs out and you swim the thought of man this playboatin on huge wave/holes is harder than it looks!!! Again laughable that there is any wave even close to the pouder to compare it to.. I bet you boys would playboat if you had waves this good.. For me surfin a nice 8-10 foot wave hole is just about as good as it gets..

Now for the man made spots.. They are a true symbol of the community and what is important to us up here.. Harv, Worm, Selby's, and a ton of people came together to get these in the river and working... This sence of community is something that is just not there down on the front range.. I know it is hard to understand for you rangers but this is a community up here that will work together to get what we think is important done.. NOT talked about and bickered over but done and in the river... Until you can get enough boater and community support to back this in your area you just cant talk shit pierod... So shut me up and get in a spot!!!! g-wood did it this year.. Oh yea that is not a ranger community...

Have a good week up there boys... Let the rest of us who are by the nature of our residence forced to run sub par whitewater know when the gate is open.. Another way of puttin it is let the rest of us know when the big south gate opens so the only section of whitewater worth drivin that far to get is ready to go.. Because if I am drivin 4 hrs somewhere that is the only seciton up there that is even close to worth the drive..
 

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Pfff,the ark-most heavily used,gaped up river in the country. A thousand raft companies ruining the river,and a thousand douchebag male guides prefacing everything with "Hey,I'm a guide,look at me,i'm a guide." Shit,they even got bible thumpin asshole raft companies. No thanks. The town and the valley are prolly more scenic(they are) but no way the Ark touches the Poudre.

I think i'll take Evan "i snowboard in shoes" Stafford's advice over rdnek anyday. And i'll take the girls at CSU over the three girls in the Ark valley,anytime.
 

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Man you guys get worked up!

I love both those stretches, and at this weekends water levels would definately call #'s more challenging than Stevens down, though that in and of itself doesn't make for a better experience. Saw people on Stevens yesterday who looked like they would enjoy a little more challenge, and some great surfing, and saw people on fractions today that would have had more fun on filter plant... I love the Ark in general, and after today have a hard time seeing how anyone could bad mouth the #'s or fractions at this level (oh and by the way, no raft guides with the water this high :p :-D :mrgreen: ).
At the same time, Steven's down was sick yesterday, and ya can't beat the Ft. fun locals, good people to paddle with. Not to mention, aspiring class IV boaters can unfortunately sometimes really use the roadside access and IMHO easier river to swim provided by the Poudre. Guess it's a stupid argument btw these two stretches...
 

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The Ark is the raft guide capital of the world, easy class IV that almost looks like class V.

We do run the Big South after work...... It is an everyday run, if we can get up there without all you fuckin' gapers from the Ark, Steamboat, Denver, Lyons, Golden, Vail, and Crested Butte, and the rest of the underprivileged areas of Coloraodo.
 
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