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When is it OK to take on a land owner that is out of line?
Today, My friend Eric and I were parked and dressing up for a quick trip down Foxton. We parked about a mile up from the Boulder Garden put in across from a yellow home. As I was reading all the US Forest service signs a man came out of his home down his driveway and to say the least the fight was on. He asked Erie if he could read and then told us he owned the road the river (but not the water in it, that was Denver Water) and he was sick of all the people there that try to park in this large pull out. Eric stayed cool and asked "You own the road and the river?" The older man said he did and in his word "If I want to put up a toll road here its my Fucken right" and then said he was going to come down and kick some ass. Now, not that Eric was scared. But I'm not going to let someone talk to my friend like he was and I was pissed about the situation, we were in the process of seeing if we could park there. Well, I had to join in the heated argument. After being told he was going to bend me over and fuck me, grabbing himself and being told to suck his dick. I have to say I was upset by the situation. Standing on the new Foxton toll road the man said he was going to come kick my ass then fuck me. He must not be getting any at home!!! Funny thing was he said he was going to call the Sheriff. I noticed that the Sheriff lived next door so told him well go get him he is right there. The man said his best friend was at the VA hospital on Mondays. Well after a lot of Fuck you, talking about raping my ass I told him to go call the police if he wanted. E and I parked in the spot above the Boulder Garden and had a great day on the river. I have always been told to respect land owners and their land. I grew up hunting in Nebraska so it was a must. I feel it's also a must on the rivers. But, when is it ok to stand up for yourself and what is right. I might not of had the right to park there and was checking on that (boat were not off the car). But, I have the right to access the river in almost any spot without being told I'm going to have my ass kicked. What are your thoughts?
 

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Foxton or chatooga ? Sounds like you were in my neck of the woods..
I was there a couple weeks back and never would have thought that would have happened..
 

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He sounds psychotic. Otherwise why would he have threatened to kick your ass first and then fuck you in the ass. It is usually the other way around! Just kidding.

But seriously, that sounds crazy. You're lucky he didn't attack you for real.

Headline: Lunatic on Bath Salts eats Kayakers face after confrontation regarding parking.

What in the hell is wrong with people these days? I would have been on edge the whole time on the river after that
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Foxton or chatooga ? Sounds like you were in my neck of the woods..
I was there a couple weeks back and never would have thought that would have happened..
It was between the Boulder Garden and that small store/post office thats to the west on the same road.
 

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Usually I would say to just apologize and leave the situation. However, if you were on the side of a public road, you were on public property. If you walked down from the blacktop, you didn't trespass on his land. I think you handled it well, not sure I would have kept my cool.
 

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I just have to back up Brian. I was there and all that happened. Ive been thinking about it a lot and that guy is just freaking nuts. I'm glad Brian, aka Killa B, was there to back me up.
 

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I agree, file a police report. And for yourself, document in detail everything that happened, with date and approx. times.

I've heard that "toll road" lie before, too. Not along a river, but on a road. A private road SHARED by many homeowners, some of whom we are friends with. One such household must be very, very, very paranoid about something in their property...hmm wonder what that could be? They have 2 huge mean dogs they let run loose despite the leash law that DOES apply to a shared road, even a private one.

To make a long story short, the woman claimed that 1) she owned the entire road herself, 2) the land we passed through belonged to BLM (there is no BLM land anywhere nearby, 3) she, as the sole owner of the road that passed along said BLM land, had the right to charge us fees for walking on the road, and 4) if we wanted access we would not only have to pay fees but we would have to get every homeowner in the entire neighborhood to give us written permission to do so (gee, I guess she didn't own the whole road after all...). She and hubby later called the cops and lied to them when I walked on a PUBLIC road a half mile away, to try to intimidate us further.

We talked to a lawyer and he confirmed that she was wrong on all 4 of her claims. The sheriffs also said if their bullying continued it would be considered harassment. The woman literally drove her car along us screaming, SCREAMING, her lies out the window. There are a lot of nutcases out there, so start protecting yourself with knowledge, documentation, maybe video, maybe something more "forceful" if you have good impulse control.
 

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Yeah that is why the Buffalo Crk. to the Boulder Garden does 'nt get run much, hard to park. You can park at that store ( ask inside) or at the bridge on the highway.If you put up with flat water at the beginning there are some decent III's and a finish at the BG or like a 11 mile run through Waterton.We usually put in right above the BG or do the middle part down stream.
I t is pretty well signed up there, b s or not.I try to respect landowners and avoids doing anything that would screw things up for other paddlers.But if the dude is that out of line, threatening to b f you, it would be hard not to call his bluff and kick the holy living piss out of him if he comes down to public property to hook it up.Probably best just to leave.Look out for vehicle vandalism.
 

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File a police report. Need to have this guy on file. Not going to be the first time he acts out of line. The more he gets away with it the more he will do it.

Sounds like Alcohol played a role with this fine american.
 

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I find a quick way to often resolve issues like this one is to calmly state, "Lets just call the sheriff right now and sort this thing out." That usually works only, in that valley, phone service is nonexistent. Still, let them know, straight away that you're not afraid to get law enforcement involved. Chances are, law enforcement knows this individual and has had to deal with him before. But most importantly, if you suggest it, then do it. Call the sheriff and report the guy. The more calls against him the more weight you have to quell this kind of harassment.
 

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Bear in mind law enforcement officers are officers of the peace not water law experts or real estate law experts. They may come along note he was totally out of line but send you away without access to the river, because he simply doesn't know and is diffusing the situation. This will only reinforce the land owners misconceived notions about what he does and does not own. Still harassment should not be tolerated.
 

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report it

Certainly file a police report and be sure to state that he threatened sexual assault and or rape. Sounds like you need to have the GoPro going as soon as you step out of the car.
 

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Bear in mind law enforcement officers are officers of the peace not water law experts or real estate law experts. They may come along note he was totally out of line but send you away without access to the river, because he simply doesn't know and is diffusing the situation. This will only reinforce the land owners misconceived notions about what he does and does not own. Still harassment should not be tolerated.
True. Though if this individual is harassing people for being on "his road" when they're on public land then at the very least they would be able to help these boaters out with land owner harassment. My guess is that, given the nature of this encounter, this guy has a history of these encounters.

Glenn, how can boaters be better armed against this? I don't actually know what to reference in relation to land access.
 

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If this is the guy with the horses, it has been going on for decades. I like the strategy of just calling the sheriff. They know him.
 

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The guy that lived just up the south fork from Waterton used to get irate at people ( usually beginners) who floated by his house.H e would curse, threaten, hold guns, and video people as though collecting evidence. He came off his land to hassle people at Waterton put in.H e pushed people and got up in their face, bumping them with his old school cam corder.People were scared of him because he was deranged and a big hairy bicker about 6'2" 260 or so, the kind of guy you 'd nick name Bear.I told him to try picking on someone his own size. He didn't 't want none.Standing up to a bully often works, be prepared to scrap.

He wasted the law 's time more than once.They would come, pretend to side with him, take you aside and tell you he is nuts, tell.you to avoid his land, and let you go. A volunteer fireman from Conifer., and rafter /duckier I know,told me he got all aggravated and would not evacuate willingly during the Buffalo Crk. fire.He died young off a heart attack.
 

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GoBro
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True. Though if this individual is harassing people for being on "his road" when they're on public land then at the very least they would be able to help these boaters out with land owner harassment. My guess is that, given the nature of this encounter, this guy has a history of these encounters.

Glenn, how can boaters be better armed against this? I don't actually know what to reference in relation to land access.
I don't know I'm not a lawyer. My guess would be continue to access in the same way document well the encounters and lawyer up with a lawsuit. It's shitty but it's probably that or try to avoid him all together. I don't think the boating crew have the money or the desire to involve lawyers unless absolutely necessary.

Best of luck.
 

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I would have to say, this is a perfect case for a helmet cam. Keep your carm, and record his antics and threats. Then introduce the recording as evidence when you file the complaints with the police. Be prepared to "lose" the sd card when you file the complaints, the police will file it as evidence. Don't transfer or edit the recording, otherwise it may be considered to be tampered.
 

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Bear in mind law enforcement officers are officers of the peace not water law experts or real estate law experts.
Glenn, how can boaters be better armed against this? I don't actually know what to reference in relation to land access.
Time to bone up on your state's laws.
If you file a report with the sheriff's office, print up the pertinent laws that you were either within, or clearly not breaking, and attach them to the report.

LEO's are busy. They're not going to look up the pertinent laws, and like Glenn said, they're more interested in finding a peaceable solution quickly, not strict enforcement of the law. Educate them so they can come down on the law's (your) side and tell the landowner to STFU because he's wasting their time. If they don't know the chapter and verse, they won't know to tell the dude off.
 
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