[johnovice]

My wife and I paddle touring kayaks and also ducky class II-III -- a few years experience with those. I am thinking about NRS 12' Revolution raft (Otter-based design) or 12' Osprey raft (sportier/more rocker) for day paddling (2-5 paddlers) to try something different and to have a more "sociable" craft (also these are light enough for the two of us to car top I think). I have no experience moving rafts through the water (and never rowed), so is there any reason for a beginner paddle rafter to go with one design over the other -- Otter-based Revolution vs. "sportier" (more rockered) Osprey? (For example, would the Osprey be more flip prone?) I assume either one could also be paddled by just the two of us sometimes.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Boats & Inflatables > Rafts > NRS Revolution Rafts at NRSweb.com

 

[JustKip]

It's more a matter of preference with those 2 choices. The Osprey could actually be likely to be less prone to flipping, as it's 4" wider and the extra rocker will make it take big waves better.

OTOH, with a 15" longer flat section, the Revolution will definitely track better whereas the Osprey will turn better with its shorter warerline. The shorter waterline will make it easier for 2 people to control the boat, but require more paddle strokes to keep it straight.
I'd get the Osprey unless a longer frame to carry more gear is important.
If you expect to have 4+ people most of the time a 13 footer might be a better choice

 

[bluebtr]

I own the 13.5' osprey and it is very sporty,and i highly recomend it.in big water it is very stable and manuverable and it tracks very well, trust me get the osprey you will love it!

 

[Salto]

Both Good

I am sure you will like them both. Sounds like you may like the osprey for what you are going at. I have the Rev 120 and the 150. I personally like round boat designs. I also use a 3 person fish frame and had a frame that would fit the Rev 120. The frame would not fit on the opsrey due to width (frame too narrow at 48") and length (frame was too long at 60"). I did not want to get into the cost a new frame, plus the longer water line is nice. The osprey may hold in pocket water better for fishing, but doubt the difference is too much, plus i really wanted to fit a rear angler too.

One thing you need to look at is the thwarts. They only put two attachments in. Kind of a bummer for R2. I added a thwart point in my Rev 120 for better R2 position. Very easy to do and about an extra $40.

The revolutions are sweet! Get them while you can, NRS just dropped the price because they are not going to make them any longer. The fabric is just too expensive and put the boat at a price point above the otter, which was not their intention. We will see the rev in the future with a different fabric.

 

[JustKip]

The revolutions are sweet! Get them while you can, NRS just dropped the price because they are not going to make them any longer. The fabric is just too expensive and put the boat at a price point above the otter, which was not their intention. We will see the rev in the future with a different fabric.

It's not the price that's driving them off the market. They don't hold up to heavy use! The idea was as much about light weight as low price, like NRS Bandit series IK's, which can also have serious abrasion issues (according to "TheBoatPeople") and scuff easily on dry surfaces.
Here's a recent thread about a "catastrophic failure" of the floor on a Rev raft

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f15/nrs-revolution-38691.html

For comparison, Sotar uses similar type material that's twice the wieght and thickness (and price, almost)

 

[barcolounger]

It's not the price that's driving them off the market. They don't hold up to heavy use! The idea was as much about light weight as low price, like NRS Bandit series IK's, which can also have serious abrasion issues (according to "TheBoatPeople") and scuff easily on dry surfaces.
Here's a recent thread about a "catastrophic failure" of the floor on a Rev raft

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f15/nrs-revolution-38691.html

For comparison, Sotar uses similar type material that's twice the wieght and thickness (and price, almost)

Interesting, what's the source of your info? I have a Revolution raft and haven't had durability issues, yet.

 

[JustKip]

Interesting, what's the source of your info? I have a Revolution raft and haven't had durability issues, yet.

I included the link for the thread here on Buzz(in the post you quoted), where there is mention of the OP's boat still being on NRS' sales page, and the Bandit IK review on The Boat People (theboatpeople.com)

 

[Bryan]

To me, one incident of a torn floor while running the Poudre, which is often boney as hell anyways does not justify declaring the boat as non durable. I'd bet the farm that there's not a single raft design out there that has not been damaged by someone on its maiden voyage. Just saying.

 

[Salto]

I got my info straight from NRS R&D. Urethane is very expensive, and the price went up from their initial contracts. The boat was suppose to be lower priced option, but will soon be more expensive than the otters. The revs are double the weight of bandit line, and you will notice the bandit line is quite expensive too. The cost is made up for in the fact that these are machine cut and assembled vs hand cut and assembed for hypalon.


I have put my boat through a wall slammer that sheared off my oar tower, not a scratch on the boat. I have full confidence in the raft. This comes from an owner of two. The fabric weight is the same as most, and the same as what sotar was using only a handfull of years ago. Sotars denier is more, and overall coating weight is about 25% more.

Just more Mountainbuzz armchairing and speculation. At least you got a couple comments from actual owners instead of speculators. Time will tell on long term durability, but I know NRS will stand behind their products. Great customer service and I like dealing with them quite a bit.

 

[cupido76]

Just more Mountainbuzz armchairing and speculation.

I completely agree. Much of what is said here can easily be categorized as an urban myth as it is very rarely backed up with first hand experience.

"I knew a guy who said..."

An opinion/theory with an explained reasoning behind it is great, but people take it way beyond that here for some reason.

 

[laterwagged]

For those that may be looking at buying or just bought a revolution or Osprey.

I just bought an Osprey 13.5 days before the price drop, I contacted them and they are refunding some of the money to the location I bought it from so they can pass it on to me.

One other thing not mentioned here is that the warranty also changed from 5 years to 1. They are honoring my 5 year warranty as well (love NRS service).

This, however, seems dubious. Why do this if the motivation to discontinue is due to increased cost. Just because of repair materials...doesn't seem likely. I got such a good deal that I'm not worried about it, especially with a reasonable 5 year warranty.

RE: Armcharing...

Rafting is an art, and as such each artist prefers to make their own strokes, and often doesn't see others work as important as theirs.

 

[Avatard]

Down to a one year warrantee? My pool toys are warranteed longer

 

[laterwagged]

Down to a one year warrantee? My pool toys are warranteed longer

I hear you.

Price point is important and I think I would place my "bet" with an NRS boat with the revolution fabric before I would buy something like a Saturn or Rocky Mountain Raft and they are in similar price ranges now. I actually own a Rocky Mountain raft as well and if the Revolutions were available at the time that I made that purchase I would have bought the NRS, even for a couple hundred dollars more, even with a 1 year warranty.

I am aware of the other thread on this forum about revolution durability, and that OPs situation is not good, but it should be noted that I haven't been able to track down any other bad reviews - and I looked before I bought the boat. As a matter of fact I posted here for more info - in that thread.

Bottom line is, if the fabric ends up being durable for most, then the outliers simply don't matter (overall). Talk to me in a few seasons and I'll let you know.

Side note: Avatard, we live in the same neck of the woods and my friends and I will be camping and daytripping the North Santiam Wed-Sunday of July 4 weekend if you are interested. Just a relaxing float with a bunch of newbs and their dirtbag kayaking buddies. American Whitewater - 3. Packsaddle Park to Mill City, Santiam, N. Oregon, US is accurate. We may have a private take out between Mill City and Fisherman's Bend on the river at a friend's home - he is not sure if he will be home or abroad during that stretch. PM me here if you are interested, it is a beautiful run if you haven't done it.

 

[barcolounger]

One other thing not mentioned here is that the warranty also changed from 5 years to 1. They are honoring my 5 year warranty as well (love NRS service).

This, however, seems dubious. Why do this if the motivation to discontinue is due to increased cost. Just because of repair materials...doesn't seem likely. I got such a good deal that I'm not worried about it, especially with a reasonable 5 year warranty.

Yeah, that does seem dubious. I can understand that NRS wants to exit the urethane repair business eventually. But they could have dropped the warranty to 3 years without extending that exit date.

Maybe NRS dropped the price to move 'em fast, but they don't want to cannibalize Otter sales. By dropping the warrantee to a year they still compete with Saturn, RMR, etc, but appeal less to the whitewater crowd. Just another arm chair theory, the alternative being one I don't like which is that Revolutions have unusually high warrantee costs.

 

[glenn]

Covering warranties costs money. If they price them to sell they and want to continue to make money on the sales or at least break even they need balance it with a cost cut. Or maybe they are running away from quality issues. One or the other, maybe a little of both.

 

[bluebtr]

Damn , you guys got me worried, I love the way my osprey performs, but i bought this to use as a gear boat on small technical rivers.I would be very pissed if it were to blow up on day two of the selway! One thing about mine is that it is not as shiny due to uv exposure already, i do have about 70 or so days on it and 303 it relentlesly but it is noticable. Should have bought an otter, my have to give nrs a jingle.

 

[JustKip]

Just more Mountainbuzz armchairing and speculation.

I completely agree. Much of what is said here can easily be categorized as an urban myth as it is very rarely backed up with first hand experience.

"I knew a guy who said..."

An opinion/theory with an explained reasoning behind it is great, but people take it way beyond that here for some reason.

One other thing not mentioned here is that the warranty also changed from 5 years to 1.

Down to a one year warrantee? My pool toys are warranteed longer

...How much "explaination" is required?

 

[laterwagged]

... it is not as shiny due to uv exposure already, i do have about 70 or so days on it and 303 it relentlesly but it is noticable. ...

The revolution fabric almost looks like injection molded plastic when it is new, fading should be expected as it sees light abrasion from just moving it around (and moving on it). I would bet some of the "fading" has nothing to do with UV, especially if you are as diligent with the 303 as you indicate.

Now that I have made the purchase, I'm not worried about it. if the fabric fails, it fails and I'll have to deal with that then; Until then I am going to use it like I would if it was already a known quantity and enjoy the rivers.

 

[bluebtr]

.I would bet some of the "fading" has nothing to do with UV, especially if you are as diligent with the 303 as you indicate.
..

I will try to post some photos, because it looks like new under the chicken line that shaded it . I understand what you are trying to say but the areas that are faded were not caused by abrasion.My local river is at just under 9000 feet in elevation and the uv rays are intense , that issue does'nt concern me as much as the fact that i bought this with a 5 year warranty, and now they have a 1 year warranty, WHY?, especially since I paid $3295 and now they are $600 less!

 

[JustKip]

Now that I have made the purchase, I'm not worried about it. if the fabric fails, it fails and I'll have to deal with that then; Until then I am going to use it like I would if it was already a known quantity and enjoy the rivers.

Good attitude! And you should take comfort in the fact that NRS is a very reputable company.

that issue does'nt concern me as much as the fact that i bought this with a 5 year warranty, and now they have a 1 year warranty, WHY?, especially since I paid $3295 and now they are $600 less!

YOU have a 5 year warranty. Don't let it bother you that they're on "closeout sale" now. If it fails they will fix it. If it fails completely they'll take care of you. Meanwile, you still have a fun boat to play with.