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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, my girlfriend and I were on a Yampa permit, because of some BS rules that the NPS has, we're off the trip.

Putting that behind us, we have the week of July 14th off now and figured I see if any body has room on a permit launching near the same date.

We're well seasoned boaters, no how to pull our end of the work, and have a fully setup 14ft oar frame.

Drop me a message if you have room.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
If you have any suggestions on other river trips that we might want to try, we're looking for ideas too.
 

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Well, my girlfriend and I were on a Yampa permit, because of some BS rules that the NPS has, we're off the trip.

Putting that behind us, we have the week of July 14th off now and figured I see if any body has room on a permit launching near the same date.

We're well seasoned boaters, no how to pull our end of the work, and have a fully setup 14ft oar frame.

Drop me a message if you have room.
Ok - this has me curious - what NPS rule would preclude you from a Yampa trip prior to the trip?
 

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Yeah do tell - can't think of anything to exclude you other than the no repeat rule.
My $$ is on the required # of chambers....not a common rule and catches plenty of us off guard.

I could not go early on in boating career because my JPW Cutthroat was not acceptable by their standards. I know how to rock that boat down some hard runs but for some reason that particular NPS unit has decided its not Yampa or Green worthy. A real shame as its a fun rig....and not all that hard to pull-over and patch (first hand experience on the Dolores).
 

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I regrettably had to kick two people off of my yampa permit this year due to NPS regulations. One month prior to your launch date you are required to submit a permit application, permit fee, and a passenger list. This passenger list can then be modified up to two days before the launch, but there is a catch. You cannot add to the total number of people on your original list submitted to the NPS. You can make substitutions and remove people, but you can't add to this number. This stipulation is not listed in the main 2014 rules and regulations pamphlet , but is listed at the top of the permit application...

Here's the wording on the "multi-day river trip confirmation" application:

"If necessary, revisions to your passenger list can be made after submission of form, but this is not an opportunity to add people to your list. "
 

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Why do we put up with this bullshit from our government??? Seriously- a permit system and an equipment list is enough already.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app
 

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I'm guessing no repeat as well. We were there earlier this year and rangers did not count chambers although they do need to pull the sticks out of their asses. I like how Idaho rangers they don't treat people like a 5 year old that needs babysitting.
 

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Yea, I too am tired of the way Dino has always had a chip on their shoulders. I think it is cause they are a Nat'l Monument and not a full fledged "Nat'l Park. Never polite on the phone whenever I would call for info, like it was to much to ask. It's as if they are the stuck-up little brother trying to act tough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ding Ding Ding! Desierto got it right!

From the day we pulled the permit, I had requested a +1 and even paid for it. Our Trip Leader misread the language in the packet (it is vague and needs to be rewritten) and when he sent in our list, he only submitted 10 names, which didn't include my +1 because he thought he could add it later.

Even though this would be my first trip through the Yampa, my girlfriend and I have both taken the week off and rather than sitting on a boat by myself for a week I'm jumping off the trip and looking for some other fun adventure to do with her. Still looking for suggestions...

<rant time>
Seeing that some of you have experienced the same thing, this is BS! Outside of helping Kelly (NPS Ranger in charge of this) not have to do more paper work, who cares if I want to add more people to my roster. The permits for 25 people and expecting us to have it dialed in 30 days out is a stretch. At least do what Westwater does and limit us to 2 changes.

My reco to all you buzzers when you get a Yampa permit is fill in bogus names for all 25 spots. Then you can make all of the changes you want to your permit.
</rant time>
 

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Ding Ding Ding! Desierto got it right!

From the day we pulled the permit, I had requested a +1 and even paid for it. Our Trip Leader misread the language in the packet (it is vague and needs to be rewritten) and when he sent in our list, he only submitted 10 names, which didn't include my +1 because he thought he could add it later.

Even though this would be my first trip through the Yampa, my girlfriend and I have both taken the week off and rather than sitting on a boat by myself for a week I'm jumping off the trip and looking for some other fun adventure to do with her. Still looking for suggestions...

<rant time>
Seeing that some of you have experienced the same thing, this is BS! Outside of helping Kelly (NPS Ranger in charge of this) not have to do more paper work, who cares if I want to add more people to my roster. The permits for 25 people and expecting us to have it dialed in 30 days out is a stretch. At least do what Westwater does and limit us to 2 changes.

My reco to all you buzzers when you get a Yampa permit is fill in bogus names for all 25 spots. Then you can make all of the changes you want to your permit.
</rant time>
Sorry to hear it but good on ya' for sticking together for vacation time.

I have been keeping my eyes pealed on the permits and most of July seems solidified for most western rivers. The only one that has options that I have seen is Deso and is still available for your desired dates. Westwater has some middle of the week openings though its still high to be running solo for most folks. I am sure you could find some other boaters if you offered on either of those though.

Run the dam down to Lodore put-in....though going all the way there would require a play permit and dealing with your current nemesis the park again.....could always take off somewhere slightly above.

Best of luck and hope the park changes the language so others don't have the same misfortune.

Phillip
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the reco on Deso and Lodre. I'll have to check into those!!!

Anybody been on any parts of the Snake?
 

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What a bunch of horseshit. I was TL a few years ago and was personally told by Kelly I could add/change people up to a week or so before launch "as long as the list was accurate by launch." I even remember being able to fax in names if need be just prior to launch although I didn't need to. You'd think they'd just let someone go down the fn river WTF if they charged by the person Im sure itd be differernt but what do they care they already got thier 185 even if you go solo.
 

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This "no adding" rule needs to be clarified, removed or consistently enforced.

As a Yampa trip leader earlier this year, I faxed in an updated passenger list two days prior to launch and it was 19 instead of the original 17 I had submitted. I was checked in at the put-in very thoroughly (had to have 27 PFDs for 19 people) but the fact that our passenger list had increased by 2 was not an issue at all. I had no idea at the time that other folks have had a problem with this exact thing. I read the regs/book and it doesn't say you cant add. I didn't even consider this could be an issue.

It is interesting to note that I went straight from the take-out of the Yampa to Idaho for a MFS and Selway trip. All of the required equipment and equipment requirements on the Yampa are designed to make river users safe (nanny state) while all of the Idaho river regs are designed to protect the river and wilderness (job of the govt).

For the record, I see the NPS side of this as well. Group size plays into campsite assignments. They have to come get folks when something goes wrong. However, a more flexible approach could be taken.

After a recent trip, these are my recommendations for changes:

  1. Remove "no adding" rule.
  2. Close some camps for restoration and add others, some camps have been totally hammered and there are lots of other great camp spots along the river
  3. Change spare life-jacket to 1 spare per 10 participants (rounding up). 3 spares should be more than enough for the max permit size of 25.
  4. Adopt some of the Grand Canyon rules which are more flexible for canyoneers/hikers joining/leaving mid-trip
 

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I was at the Dino launch site two years ago and had a conversation that went like this with the
rent-a-ranger.

Him: If you back your trailer over the sand to the water, you will leave tire tracks.
Me: As opposed to foot prints from carrying boat and gear?
Him: Yes, don't you believe in leave no trace?
Me: Not today (I was totally rigged on trailer ready to slide boat into the water).
Him: Well okay if you don't care go ahead.
Me: Thanks
 

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That's pretty funny. Must preserve the pristine wilderness of a patch of sand on a very busy boat ramp. Funny how they prioritize what to enforce/nag about.


I was at the Dino launch site two years ago and had a conversation that went like this with the
rent-a-ranger.

Him: If you back your trailer over the sand to the water, you will leave tire tracks.
Me: As opposed to foot prints from carrying boat and gear?
Him: Yes, don't you believe in leave no trace?
Me: Not today (I was totally rigged on trailer ready to slide boat into the water).
Him: Well okay if you don't care go ahead.
Me: Thanks
 

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Thanks for the reco on Deso and Lodre. I'll have to check into those!!!

Anybody been on any parts of the Snake?
Hell's Canyon of the Snake in W Idaho is a good run with a couple class IV's. Do it if you can manage to get on a trip. This time of year the water is warm enough to swim in (and clean) which is fun.
 

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Yampa

Wow what Bull Shit!! Lets stage a protest and no one apply for lottery next year. I vote we at least boycott June 4th. I've got your back buddy.
 
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