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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I'm new to the forum.
This is my 2nd year of kayaking (probably 5 trips last year and about 8 this year so far, so not too much experience) and I have a sit-on-top kayak. I am in a local paddling club and I want to get a whitewater kayak that would be somewhat newbie friendly. I want it to definitely be able to run the rivers but be able to play some surf or whatever.. Most of the runs I would do would be only up to class 3 but it would be good if the kayak could handle the occasional class 4 rapid. What do you guys recommend?

Any comments on

1. WaveSport Diesel 75
2. Pyranha H:3 245 or 255
3. Pyranha Burn M or L
4. Pyranha Stretch L/XL RX
5. Liquid Logic Cr 125
6. Liquid Logic Remix. or any others.
I hope I posted in the right forum.

Thanks for any advice!
 

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I'd suggest the Jackson Fun series. If you want to go down river and play once in awhile you'll need to look at the free-runner type of boats like:

LL Cr series
Jackson Fun series
WaveSport EZG series

which one you get will depend on your weight, height, and foot size.
 

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KDT
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I'll second the demo comment and the Jackson Fun series comment as well.

The Hero series (Jackson also- new sizes next year) would also be a good option. Not as play oriented but easier and more stable to start out in. You can still surf it but unless you're EJ or another pro you're not gonna loop the thing. In the long term havin' a boat like the Hero in your quiver is good and if you find yourself gettin' into playboating a lot you could pick up one of those later. Also a true river runner has a lot more storage space allowing you to do self support overnighters. I've done a single night trip with my SuperFun but the gear has to be pretty lean and packed uber-tight.

It kind of depends on your personality as well. Boats like the Funs and the CRs will be a little harder to learn in than a Hero or a Remix. They'll make you work harder in the beginning. But they'll be more playful once you advance. But if you really get into the whole playboating side of things you'll eventually want a true playboat.
I went the free-runner route to start (superfun) and I'm glad I did, but i think it definitely has been harder than if I started with a river runner. I knew I wanted to kayak and wasn't going to be deterred by a hard start. I think I'm probably a better boater because of it (definitely a better swimmer!).

I'm using my superfun less and less now and considering trading it for a superhero. Then i'd have the playboat, river runner and creek boat. Each one would perform better at its purpose than a blended boat. We'll see which way i go with that. If you can't ever see yourself having multiple boats, buy the free-runner. The LL Cr's are good option to the jackson funs. I've had friends who love those as well.
Hope this helps some and doesn't confuse too much.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the advice. I'll put the Jackson SuperHero on my list. Yeah I really want a river runner but be ablet to play some.
 

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KDT
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I think the Super Hero will be to big for you but find the boat in the Hero line that matches you for weight/height and try it out if you can. And if you're not buying immediately, Jackson just announced that they're adding another size in the Hero line. I think they said it should be available around Nov.
 

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Newbie/Kayak

Skeelow,

The Superhero would really be to big for you as mentioned. You are kinda in a crossover weight but there are plenty of boats that could work depending on just what you want out of your boat & how much you feel your are going to get into it......I initially bought a Diesel for a first boat thinking along the lines of wanting the river runner and would be a bit more forgiving...It is a great boat...But within two months I was already wanting something more playful..... I then bought a Superfun.....I never looked back. I ended up using it for everything up to easy class V & never even got back in the Diesel. The Fun series is actually a river runner that just plays well. It rolls easy & is a very versatile boat. You would be in a 4Fun though.....So depending on your $funds & aggressiveness buying a little more playful boat initially may make more sense.....The LL Cross River & Wavespot EZG as also mention would be good playful boats that would river run well like the Jackson..................I know I am reiterating some from other posts but demoing is truly the way to go... And.... immidiately get a roll down so when you Are demoing you will be able to assess that about the boat.....Good luck & don't forget about all the potential used boats in the Buzz Swap. Sorry dealers Ha

MtnGuyXC
 

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burn

my favorite boat would have to be the burn. its a really good beginer boat and advanced big water boat. only down side is it is a hard boat to do rodeo stuff in. but if your only going to be surfing then its fine. last time i checked i was 5ft. 10in. and a wopping 135lbs. and i paddle the medium.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the responses guys. So the Liquid Logic CR can run the river well? I thought about this one but how hard is it to learn in? Is it newbie friendly?
 

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They'll make you work harder in the beginning. But they'll be more playful once you advance. But if you really get into the whole playboating side of things you'll eventually want a true playboat.
I went the free-runner route to start (superfun) and I'm glad I did, but i think it definitely has been harder than if I started with a river runner. I knew I wanted to kayak and wasn't going to be deterred by a hard start. I think I'm probably a better boater because of it (definitely a better swimmer!).


For what is worth, I have come to appreciate the route I was forced to take as a new paddler, which began early this spring with the Riot Prankster, which is an older playboat for larger people (I am only 5'8", 170lbs.). In the beginning, the boat manhandled me, and I could not wait to get into a more stable boat. After working my way up to class IV- this season and have demoed boats such as the Burn and Hero, I can appreciate (looking back) what my boat has done to help build my skills. I loved the Burn, and will definitely call on it when stepping to IV/IV+ runs. However, it was boring as hell taking it down III+ runs like Waterton, Shoshone, Foxton and the like. The boat handled so well that I really had to do very little, and know I would not have made the strides this year with my skills if I would have started in the Burn. At first I couldn't wait to get rid of the Prankster, and now I enjoy the challenge it adds to the simpler runs.

As everybody else has said, demo as many boats as possible. I would recommend, however, that your skills will be better developed if you start with something less stable than a creeker. I have never been in the Fun, but have heard so many paddlers swear that it is the perfect boat for beginners. Take it for what it's worth.
 

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I'm 5 foot 6 weight 175- 180 range. foot size 9.5
We are the same sizes. I have a Remix 59 also a Fun and I'm a first year boater.

They are both different. Without bigger water to run I'd just have the Fun.

The Remix is comfortable, stable, and forgiving. I like it because, like other big boats, it doesn't drive like a barge and carves well. I front surf it, but your not going to throw it around too much.

The fun is just fun, light, and effortless for me to roll and the boat I take to the play park. I do have to pay attention when I'm in it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
We are the same sizes. I have a Remix 59 also a Fun and I'm a first year boater.

They are both different. Without bigger water to run I'd just have the Fun.

The Remix is comfortable, stable, and forgiving. I like it because, like other big boats, it doesn't drive like a barge and carves well. I front surf it, but your not going to throw it around too much.

The fun is just fun, light, and effortless for me to roll and the boat I take to the play park. I do have to pay attention when I'm in it.

How hard was it to learn to roll in the remix? A good river runner?
 

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I am the same size as you also. I just bought a pyranha stretch m/l brand new for under $700. They are a great boat for a beginner because they are stable but offer a lot of play. They aren't rated that well, I think people thought they were going to get the best of all worlds with this boat (run big water and then hit the park for all the tricks). You can do a lot of tricks with this boat and at 58 gallons, offers a lot of play too. I tried the l/xl and it was TOO big, couldn't do much of anything with it. There are a lot of good boats out there, just have to find your own favorite by demo'ing them.
 

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How hard was it to learn to roll in the remix? A good river runner?
Not at all hard. I had a problem early on of punching with my paddle and once I overcame that I don't have any issues rolling my Remix.

The funny thing is that when I switched to my Fun the first time I rolled it I threw so much hip snap I almost rolled it twice. I was so used to rolling the bigger Remix. It was pretty funny to watch.

As for river running the Remix punches holes like you wouldn't believe, is fast, and super comfortable.

I'd tell anyone to demo one.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well I don't think I can demo any kayaks. The closest store which is huge by the way (Appomattox River Company) is 2 hours away. So it looks like I may be buying just by sitting in one and seeing how it fits. I'm gonna try out as many as I can but I think just from posts and people talking I think Im really gonna look at the Jackson Hero, Pyranha Burn, and the Liquid Logic Remix. Mainly looking for a Riverrunner that can roll easy. Any more comments on how these kayaks roll? easy to roll or not? Thanks again!
 

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Well I don't think I can demo any kayaks. The closest store which is huge by the way (Appomattox River Company) is 2 hours away. So it looks like I may be buying just by sitting in one and seeing how it fits. I'm gonna try out as many as I can but I think just from posts and people talking I think Im really gonna look at the Jackson Hero, Pyranha Burn, and the Liquid Logic Remix. Mainly looking for a Riverrunner that can roll easy. Any more comments on how these kayaks roll? easy to roll or not? Thanks again!
Never been in a Liquid Logic Remix... but i know the burn is very easy to roll. boats that have more volume tend to be easier to roll so i think any of those would be relitivly easy to roll.
 
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