[classVpotatoes]

Howdy buzzards,

I've been lurking now for about a year and figured I should create an account and start contributing. I live in Ketchum, ID. Worked for a couple outfitters on the MFS for a total of 7 seasons. Four of which were swamping and the last three were a s a licensed guide rowing a chase boat for the sweep and guests here and there. Because of that, I like my boat heavy and full of shit. I work at a bike/ski shop here in town and have been enjoying the perks of a non-seasonal worker, but damn do I miss the Frank Church. I have one trip down the GC Sept of 2020 with a bunch of internet strangers. Recently bought a 16ft aire trib and am hurting to get floating again.

And no, I have no idea what the hell is happening with the ramshorn blowout, but we have such a big snowpack so my best guess (depending on the amount of melting we get early season) is that its going to flush out before permit season starts. I know where all the guides stash booze on the way down the MFS, but you'll have to take me down with you to find out exactly where they are

stay stout my friends

 

[SpudCat]

Howdy, Boise cat boater here. I have family in the Wood River Valley. Yeah, there's a lot of water in the hills--good potential for moving wood! I also wonder how much new wood is going to come into play with the heavy avalanche activity this winter.

Welcome to the Buzz!

 

[carvedog]

Hey classV...not sure if I know you. I am old river scum from years ago...worked for MF River Tours among others. Just a little heads up but the snotel at Banner is not showing even as much snow as we had in 2016. Flow that year peaked just south of 7 feet. It was a good year but not sure how this snowpack will hold up once it warms up. Sure has been fun to play in though.

Historic flows in 2016...

MF Salmon River at MF Lodge NR Yellow Pine ID

Monitoring location 13309220 is associated with a Stream in Valley County, Idaho. Current conditions of Discharge and Gage height are available. Water data back to 1973 are available online.

waterdata.usgs.gov

https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/hydrodata/stf/Lower%20Snake/Mf%20Salmon%20R%20at%20Mf%20Lodge.html

Click on 2016 and you will see we are behind that year....

Cheers. And Welcome.

 

[Blade&Shaft]

You Idaho boaters are so rad. Feet not cfs. Wow.

 

[carvedog]

You Idaho boaters are so rad. Feet not cfs. Wow.

I can do the conversion for you if you need?

 

[Blade&Shaft]

And now maths. Jesus!

 

[classVpotatoes]

Hey classV...not sure if I know you. I am old river scum from years ago...worked for MF River Tours among others. Just a little heads up but the snotel at Banner is not showing even as much snow as we had in 2016. Flow that year peaked just south of 7 feet. It was a good year but not sure how this snowpack will hold up once it warms up. Sure has been fun to play in though.

Historic flows in 2016...

MF Salmon River at MF Lodge NR Yellow Pine ID

Monitoring location 13309220 is associated with a Stream in Valley County, Idaho. Current conditions of Discharge and Gage height are available. Water data back to 1973 are available online.

waterdata.usgs.gov

https://www.usbr.gov/uc/water/hydrodata/stf/Lower%20Snake/Mf%20Salmon%20R%20at%20Mf%20Lodge.html

Click on 2016 and you will see we are behind that year....

Cheers. And Welcome.

I wonder if we ever overlapped? Worked for far and away then solitude.

2016 was a huge snow year, I guess we will just have to wait and see...

 

[tBatt]

You Idaho boaters are so rad. Feet not cfs. Wow.

500 cfs and the put in 2500 cfs at the takeout.

this ain’t no desert.

@classVpotatoes - which outfitter? Im willing to bet we have some mutual friends.

 

[carvedog]

500 cfs and the put in 2500 cfs at the takeout.

this ain’t no desert.

@classVpotatoes - which outfitter? Im willing to bet we have some mutual friends.

I can't tell if he is trolling or not about the feet thing but the cfs discrepancy is exactly why these Idaho rivers use feet instead of cfs. Most places that all those day-boater-cfs-speak people boat have roughly the same cfs at the top as at the bottom. The Middle Fork and to some extent the Main vary greatly in cfs from top to bottom. The OP said he worked for Far and Away and Solitude.

 

[tBatt]

Ah, reading comprehension lacking.

@classVpotatoes you know Carl H and Taylor W? They might have still been with MT Sobek when you were at Solitude.

 

[jsheglund]

I can't tell if he is trolling or not about the feet thing but the cfs discrepancy is exactly why these Idaho rivers use feet instead of cfs. Most places that all those day-boater-cfs-speak people boat have roughly the same cfs at the top as at the bottom. The Middle Fork and to some extent the Main vary greatly in cfs from top to bottom. The OP said he worked for Far and Away and Solitude.

Can you elaborate on the discrepancy between the two? I'm a cfs guy, but that only because its what i'm used to. I just know if you look at graphs of the two, the line has the same shape, but my mind understands what 500cfs is, as a volume, or what a jump from 5000cfs to 7000cfs is. Feet measurements to me feel like when I ask a guy in jean shorts how its running and he says "bout knee high".

 

[jsheglund]

Can you elaborate on the discrepancy between the two? I'm a cfs guy, but that only because its what i'm used to. I just know if you look at graphs of the two, the line has the same shape, but my mind understands what 500cfs is, as a volume, or what a jump from 5000cfs to 7000cfs is. Feet measurements to me feel like when I ask a guy in jean shorts how its running and he says "bout knee high".

Not implying Ft measures are yokels in jean shorts, I'm saying my mind is really ambiguous about what any Ft measurements really represent.

 

[tBatt]

It’s a physical gauge of river depth, usually began by being painted on a bridge abutment somewhere. Easier to measure than cross sectional area and river speed. No direct translation to CFS (as in, 1 ft =/= 100 CFS across the board.

 

[classVpotatoes]

Ah, reading comprehension lacking.

@classVpotatoes you know Carl H and Taylor W? They might have still been with MT Sobek when you were at Solitude.

Went down with Carl at least once on the sweep and knew Taylor since we launched with sobek. Small world

 

[Will Amette]

River stage (height) is measured. River discharge (cfs) is estimated by a rating curve.

The gauge typically uses a pressure transducer in a stilling well. A bottle of inert gas (nitrogen) is pushed slowly out of the transducer. The pressure it takes to form the bubble is based on how deep the water is above it. It's pretty precise.

Detailed measurements are made to develop and then revise the rating curves. A series of measurements are taken across the channel to measure the shape of the bottom. That gives the cross-sectional area. A series of flow measurements are taken at various depths at various flow levels/stages. All this information is crunched into a rating curve that says if the stream is at a particular stage, this is what the estimated discharge is.

Sediment deposition or other channel changes can alter the relationship between stage and discharge, so rating curves are revised. Small streams can be measured by wading. Larger streams typically have a carriage hung on a cable over the river to take the measurements.

Stage is also somewhat arbitrary, as it is just some distance above some datum. Five feet on the gauge on the Willamette River closest to my house isn't the same as five feet on the gauge upstream or downstream.

The calculated discharge is only valid right where the river is gauged. If another stream flows in just downstream of the gauge, that stream also contributes flow. The discharge below the confluence won't be the same as the discharge at the gauge. A given discharge (cfs) also looks very different on a small versus a large stream. A "small" river near me is at flood stage at about 4300 cfs. The river it flows into isn't at flood stage until about 80,000 cfs.

Timing also can have an influence. A fun river not far from here is the Siletz. The whitewater section is about 25 miles upstream of the gauge. The discharge in the whitewater section feels the same when the gauge is at 4.5 feet and rising and at 5.5 feet and falling just because the time difference between what is flowing in the whitewater section and what is flowing by the gauge.

Yes, I was a hydrologist in my past. Hillslopes, not rivers, but they did train us in rivers too.

 

[tBatt]

Went down with Carl at least once on the sweep and knew Taylor since we launched with sobek. Small world

My first middle/main trip (Memorial day 2016) I grossly misunderstood some logistics.
Ended up hitchhiking from Lolo to Salmon, getting to the MT Sobek warehouse just before Carl and co left to Boundary for his first training trip. I ended up getting a ride in the raft on the trailer. 3 stack if I remember correctly. Hell of a time.

I live in Alta with them. I don’t see Taylor a whole lot but hang out with Carl every day.

 

[jsheglund]

River stage (height) is....

Thanks for the info!

 

[classVpotatoes]

My first middle/main trip (Memorial day 2016) I grossly misunderstood some logistics.
Ended up hitchhiking from Lolo to Salmon, getting to the MT Sobek warehouse just before Carl and co left to Boundary for his first training trip. I ended up getting a ride in the raft on the trailer. 3 stack if I remember correctly. Hell of a time.

I live in Alta with them. I don’t see Taylor a whole lot but hang out with Carl every day.

Sounds like a time! First trip ever (far and away Aug 2012) I flew into Indian and spilled guest Bev all over the bottom of the ramp, oops. Only some ice was lost but It was a very public event, oh to be young again