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Damn Charlie! Glad you made it out okay. Take the time to rest up, let it heal right the first time. You’ll thank yourself later. The river will be there when you’re ready. Hope you’re not right handed!

Don’t let it get in you’re head too much. The last scare I had a few years ago scared me pretty good. Took me a few years to get back out there. Wish I didn’t take so long. You’re a smart guy, who made a mistake. We are all human, we all make mistakes. Learn from them and use that knowledge to be better.

I’ll poor one out for your fingers tonight lol
 

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The Gallatin was at 3500 yesterday, which is definitely sporty. Hole after hole after hole, and they all look eight feet deep when you’re going into or by them. It was fun and sort of scary at the same time.
I don’t know why anyone wants to go right at House either…there’s this really nice channel on the left, and nothing at all to recommend going right. WTF Charlie? Musta had your GoPro with you yesterday…that’s the only thing that explains your trying to win a Darwin Award.
 

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it wasn't romantic and it wasn't fun like I'd had hoped it would be. I've been trying to learn so hard and I literally did every single thing wrong and continued to do them wrong and ...it sucked bad. Shout out to perry and MG for rescuing me , getting me off the river and driving me to hospital . Ugh...now iam worried I'll not be a whitewater hero after all. So here's a question, how did I squish my hand so bad it exploded my skin but did it in the inside not out? I freaking tried to go right at house rock, got surfed or knocked left , hit the damn rock , flipped then got worked all the way down the shitty boulder strewn stretch . Didn't let go of my boat but maybe sometimes you should so you don't get smashed frame against rocks? All my plans to be heroic and re flip lickety split and be all " that was fun." Went right the fuck out the window Not only that but turns out you can't breath under water and choking while smashing rocks just adds to the not so fun experience. Well shit I tell you what was worse though, being scared like that is fucking scary man! Just sitting in the er on morphine bored so sthought I'd make a fool of myself once again. All the talk about humble pie these days so thought I'd share my lousey fail of flip! Damnit! Three busted fingers one bad cut freaking squished hand ouch. One lost oar, one bad stolen knee and one bashed ankle. Worst is my pride though ....
The finger and the pulp in the fingers are laced with connective tissue that is rather sturdy. A tiny little bit of swelling (edema) combined with a small opening makes it challenging to close with sutures. Generally, after cleaning it up, numbing it up, and cleaning it up more thoroughly, loose sutures are made and you package it up to see a hand surgeon, unless there is no real tendon, muscle or nerve involvement and then it is just allowing to heal by what they call “second intention.” If allowed to get infected, the swelling and pressures inside can lead to needing an amputation, so the “explosion” actually protects you a bit from this. Generally, I bring enough medical gear to manage a laceration and many times the trip is salvaged, but in this case it would have been hard with that location and style of laceration
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Exactly what they did and I've been referred to a surgeon. Will the surgeon open it back just to look or want a mri or what? Part of me doesn't want to go but I better . I've been wondering how this would have played out on a remote trip. Now day two I feel like I had a car crash but I don't necessarily feel like I need a helicopter. Of course if I swam again it may be fatal . This has been rather bad for me emotionally in that respect. Good news is my wife is really pissed off and she was otherwise SO easy to deal with lol. Dang it!
 

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Well to be fair two others made it but the boat in front of me went way up the pillow but he was far enough in the gap that a giant high side saved him. I think that was a major screw up for me cause I was just watching that all "der..." and I just got surfed in that big lateral there right behind hose rock and it was shocking how fast I was over. Other thing is, the right side is elevated kinda and you gotta have a lot of momentum to get in there. It never looked big to me till today and that first drop felt pretty big and is pretty pushy in there at least to me. I broke two of my rules. Look where you wanna go and commit. Cause right left is a no go. And if anyone's wondering you hit that thing pretty hard. Hard enough to get hurt so let's all try and avoid hitting the big giant stupid rock. My beating was well deserved and iam sulking and bummed that I did so many things so bad but iam very much alive and I've been hurt way worse doing other stuff so I'll try and not be a dick for a day or two then go back to normal lol. Man I hope that corner doesn't trigger some kinda freeze up next time lol!!
So you’re saying the 3 of you purposely went to the right of HR? Death wish or something??
Not trying to be a dick at all just wondering why.
What am I missing?
Again, glad you’re upright. Speedy recovery.
 

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So you’re saying the 3 of you purposely went to the right of HR? Death wish or something??
Not trying to be a dick at all just wondering why.
What am I missing?
Again, glad you’re upright. Speedy recovery.
Just because a person is not comfortable running right does not mean it is not a viable line. Just because the left run is easier does not mean it is the only line. That is how people progress, running a harder line in an easier rapid. The right line at house only opens up a certain levels and therefore is a bit of a novelty and a way to switch it up when you have run left a hundred times. Perhaps Charlie took a bite off before he was ready, perhaps it just wasn't his day. I ran right, made it through, two others made it right with varying success. Charlie didn't. That is how it goes sometimes.

Try it, maybe you'll like it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
It's OK I get it. Especially now. So first off iam pretty new to whitewater and that's the highest flow I've ever tried to run it so I really didn't have a "gauge" as to what it would be like. The guys who are mentoring me are very good and do much harder rivers. I just tried to believe it was going to be ok when they said they where going right. I asked what moves I should make and got the low down and so i committed to it but was pretty bummed out as I came to the first drop and realized there was no way I was getting far enough right to make it but was way to far right to go left. Iam new enough that I pull alot and sometimes maybe I sabotage a line by killing off momentum but this time it had even worse affects cause I just typewritered right down into the trough in front of the rock . Which for those who are just reading is about the size of a winnebago maybe? I dunno but iam one of a few who's been there cause basically it's just no man's land. Yeah man being new and trusting is a bit challenging I guess. My only beef is that I really didn't stand a chance but I know it wasn't their fault. It wasn't altogether terrifying in fact it was oddly beautiful down in that hole. I will say the noise was overwhelming though. Yeah shit man my boys said we're running right so I went right but not right enough!? I dunno? If I didn't smash my hand I'd have done better and after a deep calm mental replay I realized what started the fear and break down. So I thought if maybe I hit this thing with my left front tube maybe just maybe it'll spin me around it. After I started to see sky and realized I was flipped I grabbed my frame but I didn't get a good breath. I THINK why i choked up and got mentally tattered was I could feel myself banging around the rock left (I was under the boat) and then it got violent and I choked a bit. I think I was in that wave hole right below and the boat hung up in there a little and that's why I felt like I was being torn off it and that started my brain going bad. I felt like I was like sideways in a wind like a cartoon but super violent. That's when the mental Downward spiral started. Hard to know how to learn this stuff? Ya know? Like what's the best way to get violently rag dolled under water holding on to your boat? Super disorienting too. In fact that was very shocking to me that I didn't know where exactly I was. Whatever, iam a over thinker. Horse was shitty, bucked me off now I gotta get back on and be the boss of it (kinda)
 

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That's disgusting and also fascinating, @JHUrbina. Thanks for the detail!

it wasn't romantic and it wasn't fun like I'd had hoped it would be. I've been trying to learn so hard and I literally did every single thing wrong and continued to do them wrong and ...it sucked bad. ...I freaking tried to go right at house rock, got surfed or knocked left , hit the damn rock , flipped then got worked all the way down the shitty boulder strewn stretch .
Well to be fair two others made it but the boat in front of me went way up the pillow but he was far enough in the gap that a giant high side saved him. I think that was a major screw up for me cause I was just watching that all "der..." and I just got surfed in that big lateral there right behind hose rock and it was shocking how fast I was over. Other thing is, the right side is elevated kinda and you gotta have a lot of momentum to get in there.
If others haven't run it, it's a big drop into a Winnebago-sized rock like Charlie said. The drop literally drives you into the rock, pillows up, and about 2/3 of the flow goes left and 1/3 goes right.
You need lateral momentum (right to left) or left to right for the optional line. You can't drop the center and then make the move.
I had a big rock splat in a raft at 3,500 on House where our inaction pinned us on the upriver side of the rock. I was doing major scrambles up the thwarts and highsiding the bow let the stern float free, and we spun around to the right. ... so I've done similar to Charlie right there and at a similar flow..and don't want to do that again!!


I THINK why i choked up and got mentally tattered was I could feel myself banging around the rock left (I was under the boat) and then it got violent and I choked a bit. I think I was in that wave hole right below and the boat hung up in there a little and that's why I felt like I was being torn off it and that started my brain going bad. I felt like I was like sideways in a wind like a cartoon but super violent. That's when the mental Downward spiral started. Hard to know how to learn this stuff? Ya know? Like what's the best way to get violently rag dolled under water holding on to your boat? Super disorienting too. In fact that was very shocking to me that I didn't know where exactly I was. Whatever, iam a over thinker. Horse was shitty, bucked me off now I gotta get back on and be the boss of it (kinda)
Yeah, had a similar swim on the Lochsa last week, hanging onto the boat and getting banged into rocks. And mindgames and mental spiral for a week.
Yep, definitely need to get back on the horse. It's all good, Charlie. Heal up and we'll hit Alberton again later this summer.
 

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no one knows what was going on during this event but you

the rest of us can only read and give our opinions

you were there and I appreciate your attitude and sharing

I do not know of a long time boater who had not done the wrong move and paid the price of the decision they made. For myself I am a slow learner and made my share of decisions that did not turn out like I wanted

some one once told me experience is gained from surviving wrong decisions

I am impressed that when things heal up you are ready to get back on that boat and go again

my take is you will be a better boater as far as learning from this event

living here in cow country, there is a saying "cowboy up"

my opinion that is what you are doing

.
 

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Not knowing the first thing about The Gallatin, I googled, Youtubed...
You went here??
Water Fluvial landforms of streams Liquid Watercourse Formation


vs the conventional left run??

I LIKE IT!!

There are a few runs that I take the "unconventional" route, on my childhood favorite, The Deschutes.
One is below Whitehorse, there's a clear run left. Or a rocky, boulder sieve right, center. I go right almost every time. Frequently get stuck. But that's how you learn. Another is the left run at Wampanita, just above Maupin, gotta bend the oars to get over there, high consequence of pinning on the rock if you miss the pull. But it's a challenge to get over there, and a steeper drop than the "conventional" right line.

You're gonna be on rivers where the ONLY line is the high consequence line, and if you pick the high consequence line, on the easy runs, you'll better hone your skillz, for when the time comes.

Kudos, Charlie!
 

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Just because a person is not comfortable running right does not mean it is not a viable line. Just because the left run is easier does not mean it is the only line. That is how people progress, running a harder line in an easier rapid. The right line at house only opens up a certain levels and therefore is a bit of a novelty and a way to switch it up when you have run left a hundred times. Perhaps Charlie took a bite off before he was ready, perhaps it just wasn't his day. I ran right, made it through, two others made it right with varying success. Charlie didn't. That is how it goes sometimes.

Try it, maybe you'll like it!
Yes I’m well aware you can run it to the right, but thanks for the pep talk.
Was just curious why Charlie (being newish on the sticks, who’s very honest about his skill set from the posts I come across of his) tried to go right.
I understand the story now, thanks.
 

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Yes I’m well aware you can run it to the right, but thanks for the pep talk.
Was just curious why Charlie (being newish on the sticks, who’s very honest about his skill set from the posts I come across of his) tried to go right.
I understand the story now, thanks.
I cannot answer that question for you either and I was there with him that day. There were some in our group that went right and some that went left. I was never asked about the right line by Charlie. However he has explained pretty well what happened. He didnt have enough juice and then probably pulled back when he should've been pushing even harder. I have and always will tell Charlie to run his own run and pick the lines he is most comfortable running. I would never intentionally push Charlie to get in over his head.
 

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Exactly what they did and I've been referred to a surgeon. Will the surgeon open it back just to look or want a mri or what? Part of me doesn't want to go but I better . I've been wondering how this would have played out on a remote trip. Now day two I feel like I had a car crash but I don't necessarily feel like I need a helicopter. Of course if I swam again it may be fatal . This has been rather bad for me emotionally in that respect. Good news is my wife is really pissed off and she was otherwise SO easy to deal with lol. Dang it!
Depends how it looks, and the function of your finger once the swelling goes down. Goal is to salvage function and tissue avoid amputation. Risk factors for loss of finger include smoking, diabetes, and poor self care (nutrition, sleep, keeping it clean, following instructions). Usually if simple there may be no further cutting or cleaning, but what initially looks like viable tissue can be necrotic (non-viable). All depends on what happened after the injury, the initial treatment and sometimes just luck
 
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