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Ask me my least favorite commercial outfitter. Have seen numerous examples of really poor river ethics.
Oh, you just posted pics of them.
And I'm not anti-outfitter. I can name ten or a dozen right off hand with whom I've had consistently positive interactions.

Call their office, lodge a polite complaint. Call the BLM office in Riggins, lodge a polite complaint. Nothing will change if people don't speak out.

Then stop thinking about it. Change happens slowly and worrying further will only burn you up.
We had an unpleasant Run in with this Company on the MF this July. I share your positive attitude toward the majority of Commercial crews.
 

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That second photo in the original post should definitely accompany any complaint filed with the managing agency. It clearly shows the ROW trip with a bunch of their gear unloaded and the custys are no where in sight. To me this is pretty convincing photo evidence of them splitting the group. Even if the two guides were busting their asses unloading the gear as fast as they could, they've clearly made a few trips up to the top of the beach, unloaded water and big dry boxes, and thus they've been there at least 10 minutes. If they'd been traveling together with the rest of the group, even if they had been the first ones to land, there'd be custys and other boats on the beach by the time they'd unloaded that amount of gear.
 

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Commercial rabbit boats have become a fact of life. Motorized rabbit boats, however, are new to me. Here is a ROW gear boat power rabbiting on the Lower Salmon:

View attachment 69929

Should they change their name from ROW to MOTOR? After a brief look around permit regulations, I couldn't find anything about motor rabbits breaking any rules. It still is very troubling to me - if this trend continues, getting a reasonable camp on your one private trip of the year on whatever river may get even more difficult.

BTW, ROW certainly did break the rules when they claimed Buzzards Roost camp before noon pacific time:
View attachment 69930
Hey jbomb, what is the date and time of these photos? Is there a way to share these with the original time stamp?
 

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Just got off a Corn Creek to Heller Bar. Here's a photo of the back of the self issue permit for the Lower.
Sleeve Font Electric blue Paper product Pattern
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Hey jbomb, what is the date and time of these photos? Is there a way to share these with the original time stamp?
The original photo (of them at camp) is marked August 25, 2021, 12:11:43 PM. The photo of them motoring is marked August 25, 9:47:24 AM. It looks like the buzz upload process doesn't preserve that information. I suppose I could send the raw .ORF file to whomever.
 

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Same thing happened with us on the Lower Main this summer with a couple of groups. All above the confluence.

One outfitter (non motor) definitely sent a stern frame/paddle boat ahead and snagged a beach after zipping through our group with one guide (and no gear) - at least she offered that they'd share the site but we passed anyway. It was one of our 20+ miler days.

Seemed most of the commercial groups had some type of early rabbit running down river - we had our own plan and it all worked out but there was some grumbling in our group about the poor form, for sure.
 

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Love the pic of the non-commercial permit. Anyone know if the regs prevent commercials from sending runners? Seems like a different permit and possibly rules.
 

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Commercial rabbit boats have become a fact of life. Motorized rabbit boats, however, are new to me. Here is a ROW gear boat power rabbiting on the Lower Salmon:

View attachment 69929

Should they change their name from ROW to MOTOR? After a brief look around permit regulations, I couldn't find anything about motor rabbits breaking any rules. It still is very troubling to me - if this trend continues, getting a reasonable camp on your one private trip of the year on whatever river may get even more difficult.

BTW, ROW certainly did break the rules when they claimed Buzzards Roost camp before noon pacific time:
View attachment 69930
What a total dick move. That clearly looks like a MayPop brand boat in my eyes.
 

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I ran the Lower Salmon in August, and it seemed like pretty much every outfitter sent a motor rig ahead after lunch to claim large beaches. Guides are working for the tips, and without any accountability from the managing agency (BLM) there's no incentive for them to behave differently. Personally, I'd like to see more no-motor regulations. There's plenty of opportunity downstream if you like running a prop. Also intriguing is completely restricting commercial trips. In Zion NP, guiding rock climbs and canyoneering routes is prohibited. With the escalating traffic on most western rivers, it'll be interesting to see if agencies will consider restricting commercial trips as a way to relieve congestion.
 

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I ran the Lower Salmon in August, and it seemed like pretty much every outfitter sent a motor rig ahead after lunch to claim large beaches. Guides are working for the tips, and without any accountability from the managing agency (BLM) there's no incentive for them to behave differently. Personally, I'd like to see more no-motor regulations. There's plenty of opportunity downstream if you like running a prop. Also intriguing is completely restricting commercial trips. In Zion NP, guiding rock climbs and canyoneering routes is prohibited. With the escalating traffic on most western rivers, it'll be interesting to see if agencies will consider restricting commercial trips as a way to relieve congestion.
My bet is they will restrict private trips before commercial trips.
 

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Guides are working for the tips, and without any accountability from the managing agency (BLM) there's no incentive for them to behave differently.
Also need accountability from their home offices.


My bet is they will restrict private trips before commercial trips.
Sadly, true. They're way better organized politically.
 
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