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Major bummer. I sure hope they overlook some wilderness rules sand let some beavers in.
 

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That sucks big time! Glad I got my permit for early season :D. Good luck for all those waiting on there trips.

COUNT
 

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I just talked to the outfitter I went with earlier this year. Their trip is stuck above the log jam. Word from the forest service is that they are flying in some explosives and they are going to try and blow the log jam this evening. Hopefully the wood that goes downstream doesn't cause major problems there too.
 

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I'm not entirely familiar with how many miles you cover each day or how far from the regular put in the jam is, but have friends that launched on Saturday (mostly rafts and three kayakers), is it safe to assume that they're stranded above the log jam?
 

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Maybe not

WisegirlII said:
I'm not entirely familiar with how many miles you cover each day or how far from the regular put in the jam is, but have friends that launched on Saturday (mostly rafts and three kayakers), is it safe to assume that they're stranded above the log jam?
The first debris pile is at about 20.5 miles and this all happened Sunday night apparently. If they went long or normal 10 to 15 per day they might be below the jam. Or they may have a front row seat for it.
Hope they are ok
 

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It depends on how much mileage they covered in the first two days. Blowout happened on monday I think. They had 2 days to get past it. Its the second day on most commercials, but might be a 3rd day on a private if they are taking 8 days. They could easily be above it.
 

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We camped at Marble Creek (a few miles past Pistol) on night two. So it's probably 50/50 that they got past Pistol by Monday if they launched on Saturday. Pistol (just below Lake Creek where the blowout was) is right around mile 27. It seems to me that most people usually camp somewhere between miles 5 and 15 on night one and somewhere between 23 and 35 on night two. So it's anybody's guess whether they made it or not. I guess it would be cool to be caught on the river below the jam and snag an extra hotsprings night :D. Do you know where they were planning on camping?

COUNT
 

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I don't, but the funny thing is, we were supposed to be on that trip! Got imvited really last minute and then just couldn't make it work. Which we thought really sucked, but now I think maybe it worked out for the best if they are stuck. Was just getting ready to leave some harrassing messages on their voice mail. Hopefully they're past the log jam! Kind of wondering what the rest of the trip will be like if they're above it, the feds dynamite and then send everyone down... sounds kind of dicey...
 

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Pistol is further up

Pistol is actually at mile 21 or so. Marble left is at mile 31.

http://www.whitewatercampsites.com/Middle Fork Salmon/index.php

COUNT said:
We camped at Marble Creek (a few miles past Pistol) on night two. So it's probably 50/50 that they got past Pistol by Monday if they launched on Saturday. Pistol (just below Lake Creek where the blowout was) is right around mile 27. It seems to me that most people usually camp somewhere between miles 5 and 15 on night one and somewhere between 23 and 35 on night two. So it's anybody's guess whether they made it or not. I guess it would be cool to be caught on the river below the jam and snag an extra hotsprings night :D. Do you know where they were planning on camping?
COUNT
 

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better leave em the harrassing messages anyway. just because theyre in a jam now doesnt mean they wont be having a blast somewhere down the line!
 

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Sorry. Didn't have my guide with me and was just guessing from memory. I'd say that greatly increases their chances of having made it past the jam.

COUNT
 

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Even if the feds do blow up the log jam, all that wood is going somewhere downstream. It may work and be okay but it may just create strainers or other log jams in other rapids downstream. Not to mention, at this low flow, there's not a lot of water to move all the blown up wood into safe eddies or all the way to the Main. The whole plan sounds dicey.

Regardless, it'd be fun to be on the water to see the antics!
 

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Do they know how many CFS Lake Creek was flowing? That would of been a sight to see. What about people that were below the log jam. The river must of risen pretty dramatically.
 

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Thank god the gov't will blow it up.

It is of course right in ther middle of a "wilderness". And, no interest is served by blowing it but that of recretional users and those who sell rides on the river.

If you don't want to portage it stay home.

Chris Kelly
 

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Does 'wildness' which has occurred in the Wilderness mean that it's time to portage around the log jam and keep on boating? Yes. If man intervened every time the Wilderness got a little too wild, then it wouldn't be Wilderness would it.

From http://www.wilderness.net -

In 1964 our nation's leaders formally acknowledged the immediate and lasting benefits of wild places to the human spirit and fabric of our nation. That year, in a nearly unanimous vote, Congress enacted landmark legislation that permanently protected some of the most natural and undisturbed places in America. The Wilderness Act of 1964 established the National Wilderness Preservation System, the system of all America's wilderness areas, to "secure for the American people of present and future generations the benefits of an enduring resource of wilderness."

The United States was the first country in the world to define and designate wilderness areas through law. Subsequently, countries around the world have protected areas modeled after the Wilderness Act. Wilderness is part of our history and heritage and is passed as a legacy to future generations. Indispensable to the American past, the legacy that is wilderness will remain indispensable to the American future.

Wilderness is:

"...lands designated for preservation and protection in their natural condition..." Section 2(a)
"...an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man..." Section 2(c)
"...an area of undeveloped Federal land retaining its primeval character and influence, without permanent improvement or human habitation..." Section 2(c)
"...generally appears to have been affected primarily by the forces of nature, with the imprint of man's work substantially unnoticeable..." Section 2(c)
"...has outstanding opportunities for solitude or a primitive and unconfined type of recreation..." Section 2(c)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
while i agree with the idea, the cold truth is someone will die there despite potential future warnings at the put in of the jam. i don't think anyone wants to have that on their head. and since it is a wilderness they would not put warning signs for the rapid they are approaching. some group will lose track of their location on the river(easy to do for first timers) or some swimmer(s) from a flip in next year's high water will be swept in there.
just not worth it.

I think it is good that they are removing it by hand now and not blowing it up too.

plus, from a logistics/management stand point they would create a huge mess and bottleneck at that spot , they would have to extend people's permits by two days to 10 days from the 8 now and issue even less permits. it would turn into a real high impact area in heartbeat.
 
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