Tie a water knot on a bight near each end of the a length of webbing. Put a biner on one end. Wrap the webbing around your waist until it's used up. See how far off the other loop is. Adjust the knots so the webbing fits snug with the biner acting as a buckle.
Making a wearable flip line
can anyone contribute on how to make a wearable flip line
thanks
thanks
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
You're looking for a minimum of two wraps- around 6' of overall length for smaller (<14') paddle boats or non-gear oar boats. A longer flip line, like 9-12' can be pretty useful for larger boats, and even as an anchor point. Water knots are the on-the-fly easy way to do it, but I find they tend to sit right around my hip bones and dig a little bit. I like to sew mine for lower profile.
Make sure to use a self-locking carabiner. Make sure the fit is snug. Make sure your knife is handy. A flip line is a risk to wear but may be acceptable if you take these precautions.
A flip line only presents as much hazard as a pfd. An auto locker is smart and a knife should be present with or without a flipline anyways.Make sure to use a self-locking carabiner. Make sure the fit is snug. Make sure your knife is handy. A flip line is a risk to wear but may be acceptable if you take these precautions.
Why self-locking? That seems contrary to my thoughts as I would want something releasable at any given moment, especially something wrapped around my waist/organs that could snag or compress. Everything else we use for rescues has quick release, with the obvious exception of PFD.Make sure to use a self-locking carabiner. Make sure the fit is snug. Make sure your knife is handy. A flip line is a risk to wear but may be acceptable if you take these precautions.
Curious to understand your recommendation?
Phillip
What?Why self-locking? That seems contrary to my thoughts as I would want something releasable at any given moment, especially something wrapped around my waist/organs that could snag or compress. Everything else we use for rescues has quick release, with the obvious exception of PFD.
Curious to understand your recommendation?
Phillip
PFDs do have quick releases. General standard is any biner attached to your body not on a quick release system should be locked shut so no additional lines can snap into them. If a line is under tension you probably won't be able to back it out of a biner anyways so you should be going for the knife anyways.
Like others I tie a water knot on a bite on both ends. However, for the length i do it differently. Clip the carabiner into one end, now feed the loose end through the carabiner and back down towards the bight you just created. Wrap this around your waist and clip the carabiner through the bight and the water knot. This way you can take it off without unwraping it from your waist and when you clip it to the boat all you need to do is pull and all the webbing all comes free.
Basically, you've made a big alpine draw used in climbing:
How to use the alpine quickdraw | Climbing
Basically, you've made a big alpine draw used in climbing:
How to use the alpine quickdraw | Climbing
I try to have only locking ******* exposed anywhere on a rigged raft too. In a flip you don't want to clip in to anything accidentally. As mentioned, never where a non-locker on your body in swift water.
I don't consider PFDs quick release as they have giant zippers and multiple snaps. That was my point. I do recognize my rescue vest does have quick release features. I have operated under the assumption that anything clipped to me other than my pdf should be quick release. Could be wrong.What?
PFDs do have quick releases. General standard is any biner attached to your body not on a quick release system should be locked shut so no additional lines can snap into them. If a line is under tension you probably won't be able to back it out of a biner anyways so you should be going for the knife anyways.
Your comment gets to my point though....why is a flip line around the waist not designed to be quick release? If I am in the water I don't want anything wrapped around my waist that isn't quick release. Seems a lot safer than having a knife out around my viscera.
I ask because the only lines I have clipped to myself have been quick release but I have never been trained in swiftwater rescue specific for rafting, just a generic scenario for canyoneering.
Wouldn't be hard to have a flip line around the waist be quick release even with a biner....just adapt the length to setup a minter/mule combo on one side. Pull the mule and you are good to go.
In all honesty why not just eliminate the biner and just run a mule through a water knot on the opposite side? Biner seem just seems to be an extraneous component...just have biners attached at each D-Rng if you don't want to run through the d-ring with a quick hitch/knot.
Phillip
And to be clear....curious about the auto-locking statement, not just locking.
Take a look here:
The WebToe…Now with the Petzl ‘William’ Locking Carabiner! | Astral Currently
Even Astral sells their rescue "web tow" with a traditional locking carabiner.
Part of my curiosity is I know first hand how much more dexterity it takes to operate a auto-locker in cold conditions. I can open a traditional locker in a myriad of ways when cold, which seems to be likely in a rescue/flip.
Am I missing something?
Phillip
Take a look here:
The WebToe…Now with the Petzl ‘William’ Locking Carabiner! | Astral Currently
Even Astral sells their rescue "web tow" with a traditional locking carabiner.
Part of my curiosity is I know first hand how much more dexterity it takes to operate a auto-locker in cold conditions. I can open a traditional locker in a myriad of ways when cold, which seems to be likely in a rescue/flip.
Am I missing something?
Phillip
A snug flip line should present next to zero entrapment hazard in the first place. Much like and in a very similar location to your pfd. Also bear in mind kayakers deal with much greater entrapment hazards from spray skirts and while it's not unheard of for them to cause entrapment it's thankfully rare. A throw rope should be on a quick release because it's deploy able. A flip line shouldn't be deploying while you are wearing it. Any biner attached to your pfd should be locking and close to prevent accidental clip ins. I don't use munter hitches or mules for that matter so I can't speak from experience but it seems like they would take too long to undo when backed up with a stopper knot and could easily deploy without wanting to.I don't consider PFDs quick release as they have giant zippers and multiple snaps. That was my point. I do recognize my rescue vest does have quick release features. I have operated under the assumption that anything clipped to me other than my pdf should be quick release. Could be wrong.
Your comment gets to my point though....why is a flip line around the waist not designed to be quick release? If I am in the water I don't want anything wrapped around my waist that isn't quick release. Seems a lot safer than having a knife out around my viscera.
I ask because the only lines I have clipped to myself have been quick release but I have never been trained in swiftwater rescue specific for rafting, just a generic scenario for canyoneering.
Wouldn't be hard to have a flip line around the waist be quick release even with a biner....just adapt the length to setup a minter/mule combo on one side. Pull the mule and you are good to go.
In all honesty why not just eliminate the biner and just run a mule through a water knot on the opposite side? Biner seem just seems to be an extraneous component...just have biners attached at each D-Rng if you don't want to run through the d-ring with a quick hitch/knot.
Phillip
I could see the case for both. Harder to operate for sure. Less likely to forget or slowly get unscrewed. Closed and locked is the critical part. My autolockers take two hands or very clumsy and slow with one hand.And to be clear....curious about the auto-locking statement, not just locking.
Phillip
Yeah, my question was about auto-locker specifically. Just never heard a justification for auto lockers.I could see the case for both. Harder to operate for sure. Less likely to forget or slowly get unscrewed. Closed and locked is the critical part. My autolockers take two hands or very clumsy and slow with one hand.
Per munter-mule....designed to be releasable. Mule is the stopper. I rappel on them all of the time as we only use backup knots for first people rappelling. I use them on the river all the time as well. Never had them accidentally release.
Non-lockers...generally useless in technical applications outside climbing.
Phillip
Since the OP's question was answered already anyways....
What is the benefit of flip-line around the waist? I have always boated with 2 lines per side pre-attached to the raft. Less work and fewer possible hazards attached to me. Why do people use the system in question for rafting (location of this thread)?
Phillip
What is the benefit of flip-line around the waist? I have always boated with 2 lines per side pre-attached to the raft. Less work and fewer possible hazards attached to me. Why do people use the system in question for rafting (location of this thread)?
Phillip
Just buy the name brand commercially available ones!
My flip line is one and one half wraps around my skinny little belly. It has a non locker on each end. The whole thing stays in the pocket of my pfd. It has one use and is never in the way of anything else. I wonder how well it works?!
My flip line is one and one half wraps around my skinny little belly. It has a non locker on each end. The whole thing stays in the pocket of my pfd. It has one use and is never in the way of anything else. I wonder how well it works?!
I use twelve feet of 8mm rope. I daisy chain the rope to fit around my waist so it only wraps around me once. On the ends I have tied figure eight knots and use regular locking carabiners.
glenn has covered most of the logic. I don't think it matters auto-locking or locking just so long as it locks and you don't forget to lock it. Lately I have been stowing my flip line in hard rapids due to risk being greater than the benefit in my mind.
I keep mine in my pfd pocket. Easy to grab, won't deploy accidentally and more comfy. No biners or knots digging in to my ribs. It's about 10 ft of daisy chained prussik cord.
I agree with oarframe. Put it in a pocket. It's not a belly chain and you're not Mariah Carey. Wearing a rope or piece of webbing around your torso is stupid, no matter what you've seen people do. Also, consider bright colored webbing - visibility never hurts. I'm guessing you're a first year raft guide so your $200 Green Jacket should have plenty of unused pocket space...can anyone contribute on how to make a wearable flip line
thanks
For carabiners get big ass locking pear shaped biners. If you choose auto lock, I recommend no button, just the twist. Auto lockers don't seem to freeze up as easy over time, but you should oil then at least once a year anyway to make sure they work.
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
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