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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone know when they close the gate at the put-in on week days on the Lower Blue? Can you park on the other side of the dam and hike down if you think you're going to be late?

Thanks,
-d
 

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Weekdays- 4:00

As far as I know, you can park outside the gate and hike in. But I would verify that with somebody official.
 

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M-Th 6:30 am- 4pm
F-Su 8 am-7 pm
If a holiday falls on a Monday, then the hours are 8am - 7 pm

Sheriff's Deputies are usually around, because of 9/11, from 2-9pm, I believe, and are usually parked just above the dam on the road to Heeney.

I believe the Security Patrol, a private company, has left for the year after 8/15. They were usually above the dam in the morning til maybe 2 pm.

Gates close at the hours mentioned above. However, anyone can park above the gates and therefore, aren't governed by the hours.

Probably, there's a grace period before they'll tow, but I haven't chanced it to find out. I've seen and talked to Sheriff Deputies and Security Patrol a couple times down in the parking lot as they come down there to check on who's around.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So, does this mean that you can park above and hike down after 4 on weekdays? And is this only if there isn't a patrol of some sort?
-d
 

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Yes. They just don't want anyone parking below the gate before or after hours. You can park above the gate and then walk down / up w/ or w/o a boat or whatever anytime, day or night, as long as you aren't parked below the gate during the off hours.

I'd suggest chatting with the Sheriff deps if/when you see them to confirm.

Park away from the dam. There are signs designating how far away from the dam you can park.

And/or contact Kara Lamb on this forum. She's the info director for Bur of Rec (the dam). She posts a lot on this forum about all things Green Mtn Canyon.

Tell her Richard referred you and she'll give you a 50% discount! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, my brother and friends showed up at the put-in well after 4pm and The Man told them they could not cross the gate after 4, period. Thanks to some quick thinking of one of the crew, they con'ed their way in. Don't expect to show up after hours and do this run.
 

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Getting Below Green Mountain Dam after hours

Hey all,
Glad this post is up. Believe it or not, I've already heard about Livingston's brother and party. :wink:

Actually, I don't know if it was Livingston's brother, but someone did tell the security chief that I said something I actually haven't said. But, I understand how easy it is to confuse these sorts of things; so, let me clear it up once and for all:

If the gate is down, the area below Green Mountain Dam is closed, period.

That is to say: parking away from the site and hiking down to it once the gate and area is closed is NOT OKAY. It's trespassing on federal property. Please don't do that. They can confiscate your stuff, fine you, or (if you're belligerent) give ya a ride somewhere else.

The whole area is closed to all public access by 4 p.m. Monday-Thursday and by 7 p.m. Friday-Sunday.

And, to clear up another point: Holiday Mondays (like Labor Day, Memorial Day and I believe Columbus Day--but I have to check on that one) follow weekend hours: 8 a.m-7 p.m. So, this coming Monday, you can be out there until 7 p.m.

And, that might be nice. Flows went up another 50 cfs yesterday and should be around the 700 cfs level through the weekend--unless the weather does something crazy (always a possibility 'round these parts).

I hope that helps. If any of this is not clear, or if you see grey areas that seem "open to interpretation", please give me a holler. If you can't get me at the office, feel free to call my cell phone. I usually have it with me: (970) 215-9545.

And one more note: I want to thank everyone for their patience with this security program. I make jokes about being belligerent, but the fisherman, rafters, and kayakers who our folks have encountered have almost all been professional and rather nice to our employees and security folks. That is much appreciated and goes further than you know.

So, thanks for that and I'll be sure to post here if there are flow changes before the Holiday weekend.

--Kara
 

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I've gone there before where we run shuttle, park outside the gate and walk down BEFORE closing time. We've always been on the river before the gate is closed. By the time we get back, the gate is closed, but everyone / everything is outside the restricted area.
 

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I still don't get why the sensitivty with this dam. You need 10 truck bombs to blow it up and all you kill is max 100 people down river. Did the sheriff's office get some federal homeland security money to protect dams?
 

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I'm not sure, but I think the issue is concerning a chain reaction. Okay, so someone takes out, say, the Dam in Dillon or Green Mountain, the sudden influx of water is too much for the next one, so that one breaks too. The snowball effect just becomes worse and worse until there's no Glen Canyon Dam, no power or water for California, etc., etc. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this would be a bad thing, but I think some people (law enforcement, etc.) do not think this would be good.

COUNT
 

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The whole thing makes for good rumors, though. At first after 9/11, there were divers working on the dam and, supposedly there were Navy Seals doing some kind of training there. The rumor then was that there's a missile silo in the "deep end" of the reservoir.

And of course, the snipers will get you if you go anywhere near the power plant....
 

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COUNT said:
I'm not sure, but I think the issue is concerning a chain reaction. Okay, so someone takes out, say, the Dam in Dillon or Green Mountain, the sudden influx of water is too much for the next one, so that one breaks too. The snowball effect just becomes worse and worse until there's no Glen Canyon Dam, no power or water for California, etc., etc. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this would be a bad thing, but I think some people (law enforcement, etc.) do not think this would be good.

COUNT
Whether or not the above scenario of "Dam Dominoes" could take place, I don't quite get how making hours for access makes a difference in preventing any terrorist type scenario.

If a terrorist wants to carry out an attack, they can choose a time that will negate any access hours schedule. The answer, imo, to protect the dams is simply to have law enforcement in strategic positions 24/7 or random hours and/or video cameras with wifi wireless transmission to computers for digital surveillance which would be easy and inexpensive to implement. Digital surveillance could be accomplished at every dam with electric power and internet connection capabilities.

Keeping people out for rigid hours schedules does absolutely nothing towards the goal of protecting the dams.

And dumping every single upstream reservoir at one time into Glen Canyon Dam likely wouldn't put a dent in that big of a reservoir. Therefore, imo, the likelihood terrorists would make this type of attack a priority is virtually nil. Zero.

Keep the gate leading over the bridge leading to the dam buildings locked. Heck, put another gate in front of it. That's the only way to get to those buildings or to the base of the dam.

There's no value whatsoever for terrorists to do anything down in the canyon. There's no reason, for that matter, to have a gate up at the top on the dam, either as there is a gate already at the bridge leading to the dam buildings. The gate/bridge/river is like having a moat around those buildings and the dam base.

***The spillway mechanisms at the top are really what should be specifically protected, not anything down below, imo.***

Therefore, there's no reason, imo, to limit access hours down into the canyon.

I say, "Free the Canyon! All Access all the time!"
 

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Hey Ole did Gorge just shit and make you our homeland security czar?

Actually the Feds did study multiple dam attacks on the Colorado drainage, post 9-11, a breach of Green Mtn. and Grand Lake would take it all out down to the ocean. There was an article in the Summit Daily about it.

Don't be such a little bitch, unfortunately there are more important things out there than you going kayaking. You wana bitch about access how about Yellowstone N.P.
 

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Riojedi wrote:
Don't be such a little bitch, unfortunately there are more important things out there than you going kayaking.
Like what?
 

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riojedi said:
Hey Ole did Gorge just shit and make you our homeland security czar?

Actually the Feds did study multiple dam attacks on the Colorado drainage, post 9-11, a breach of Green Mtn. and Grand Lake would take it all out down to the ocean. There was an article in the Summit Daily about it.

Don't be such a little bitch, unfortunately there are more important things out there than you going kayaking. You wana bitch about access how about Yellowstone N.P.
hey ed, when I read your question, I noticed you posted it at 12:37 pm. You must have had lunch on your mind, huh? :)

And about your reference to me as a little bitch... if you want to bend over to read those access signs a little better, be my guest. I prefer getting on rivers w/o permission for when I can go there, like just about any other person on this board except, apparently, for you.
 

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COUNT said:
I'm not sure, but I think the issue is concerning a chain reaction. Okay, so someone takes out, say, the Dam in Dillon or Green Mountain, the sudden influx of water is too much for the next one, so that one breaks too. The snowball effect just becomes worse and worse until there's no Glen Canyon Dam, no power or water for California, etc., etc. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this would be a bad thing, but I think some people (law enforcement, etc.) do not think this would be good.

COUNT
Whether or not the above scenario of "Dam Dominoes" could take place, I don't quite get how making hours for access makes a difference in preventing any terrorist type scenario.

If a terrorist wants to carry out an attack, they can choose a time that will negate any access hours schedule. The answer, imo, to protect the dams is simply to have law enforcement in strategic positions 24/7 or random hours and/or video cameras with wifi wireless transmission to computers for digital surveillance which would be easy and inexpensive to implement. Digital surveillance could be accomplished at every dam with electric power and internet connection capabilities.

Keeping people out for rigid hours schedules does absolutely nothing towards the goal of protecting the dams.

And dumping every single upstream reservoir at one time into Glen Canyon Dam likely wouldn't put a dent in that big of a reservoir. Therefore, imo, the likelihood terrorists would make this type of attack a priority is virtually nil. Zero.

Keep the gate leading over the bridge leading to the dam buildings locked. Heck, put another gate in front of it. That's the only way to get to those buildings or to the base of the dam.

There's no value whatsoever for terrorists to do anything down in the canyon. There's no reason, for that matter, to have a gate up at the top on the dam, either as there is a gate already at the bridge leading to the dam buildings. The gate/bridge/river is like having a moat around those buildings and the dam base.

***The spillway mechanisms at the top are really what should be specifically protected, not anything down below, imo.***

Therefore, there's no reason, imo, to limit access hours down into the canyon.

I say, "Free the Canyon! All Access all the time!"
 

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Hi all,
I understand the frustration with the gate and the hours for accessing the Lower Blue. I wish I had more complete answers than what I have, but those in charge don't tell me much more than what I've already shared with you.

There IS a rumor I CAN clear up, though.

Prior to 9/11, there WERE Navy divers at Green Mountain Dam. We hired the Under Water Construction II (NOT the Seabees) team out of Point Hueneme, CA. That was in 2000. We needed them to dive deep into the reservoir near the dam and block the pipeline that takes water into the power plant. Once the pipeline was blocked, we dewatered the whole pipe. The pipe bifuricates, or splits into two pipes, inside the dam. At that point, there are gates that control how much water enters each of the two hydro-electric generators in the plant. Both gates needed maintenance. The Navy team provided divers when we pulled and worked on the first gate. This summer, we hired a private contractor to do the diving and "bulkhead" placing when we pulled the second gate.

We can't dewater the pipes unless we have high water in the reservoir. High water allows us to continue to release to the Lower Blue over the spillway and, consequently, NOT dry up the river. If we dewatered the pipes to do the gate work without high water levels, we wouldn't be able to keep flows in the Lower Blue. So, that is why (in case you did the math), it has taken us 5 years to get both those gates pulled and worked on. We've had to do them one at a time so we wouldn't have a lag in power generation. If we get another good snow run-off next spring, we'll be able to replace the updated second gate and be done with the whole maintenance gig.

That's the REAL story, in all it's exciting glory. It's not a missile silo, but it is the truth. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Kara for all your efforts. We really appreciate the frequent and reliable information you so graciously post. I wish we could get this kind of data from other sources like Roberts Tunnel, the Green in NC, etc. Gore, Pumphous, and Blue boaters alike are all big fans.

I was not present during the encounter with the security guard, sorry for any problems. I couldn't help but find those guy's story funny though... and the guard's quick acceptance. I had tried to find some old post describing the situation but ended up just posting the previous questions. Perhaps you could put together the guidelines and have Frenchy post them somewhere obvious so this doesn't happen again and you don't have to keep repeating the same answers over and over? Frenchy???

-d
 
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