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Discussion Starter #1
Super stoked...launched my business this year and had a great start. Out-performed my projections and on course for a great 2015. Self-employment is everything I knew it would be...not terribly concerned about continuing income and supporting my family.

I can tell you what I am concerned about...my family insurance plan more than doubling next year. F'n love it!!!

Making the "business" and personal decision to pay the penalty in 2016 and take the "risk". One...on principle because I loathe the system and the government for thinking they could create affordable health care (don't give me the "in due time" argument...bullshit, costs NEVER go down and I'm just subsidizing cheaper health care for the lazy). Two because I'm a risk taker and I think we'll be all right and we need to pull ourselves out of the initial business investment (and $6k+ in insurance premiums will make a difference).

Anyone have anything positive to say about this absolute f'n disaster?

That annoying AFLAC duck might become my buddy...because he'll be all we can afford.
 

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So, you are saying your current health care plan is doubling in cost and you are planning to drop all health insurance in coming years? A risk I personally would not take on, especially as a small business owner. I also face rising insurance costs but choosing to proceed uncovered does a couple of things you might consider. First and the most obvious is the risk we expose our family's future to should we or one of our family encounter an unfortunate catastrophic medical situation. The second is as an uninsured we become part of the problem that helps fuel dramatically rising health care costs; primary care via the hospital emergency room and not paying the bill. Everyone else then has to pay for our uncovered ass. If we have employees, we might also feel some responsibility towards their health care instead of sticking everyone else with the bill.


As a capitalist, you have every right to shop and negotiate a better deal on health insurance but gaming the system, not so much. Look at it from another angle, we all subsidize road and highway maintenance. It is just another cost we all face. What happens when someone is allowed to opt out? The cost for all others rises. So it seems the least expensive course is to distribute the cost over the broadest user base.


It is certainly more complex than that simple analogy but it seems you may be harboring a fundamental bias towards the ACA, socialism in any form, and the reality of rising health care costs. Have you considered your health insurance to be a needed component of you business plan and thus factored in a charge for the services you provide? Or, are you an unneccesary risk taker that a prospective customer might think of as a short-term player?
 

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Make sure you check out a HSA set up coupled to a major medical policy. You can set your deductables to a level you are comfortable with (I went with 3500/person 7500 max per year) put the deductable in the HSA account and your set. My partner has a standard plan and pays 1600/month for a family of 4. My premiums are about 600/month. Any money you put into a HSA account is deductable and interest is tax free. To me medical insurance is about catastrophic stuff. For a broken arm write the check, once your deductable is maxed 100% coverage for the rest of the year. To me these types of policys are the best deal out there. Also congrats on your new business.
 

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I actually do have some success stories from a few friends/loved ones where the ACA is a game changer/ life saver (i.e a very good thing).

For one in particular recently, he signed up and it was $300/mo. Have you looked into private insurance before this? I had and $300 isn't bad considering his coverage...and is almost what I was paying when I worked for one of the largest natural gas companies in the nation. I too looked at AFLAC when I was contracting with that company (before hired)....unless they changed something, they are a "supplementary insurance" that does little more than cut you a check of a certain amount for a certain case...and it wasn't cheap for that crappy coverage.

I'm not going to go into the others....long explainations that I suspect would fall on deaf ears anyways...I think your mind is made. I will say the success stories center around saving money through needed perscriptions, being able to afford preventative care that will save/ prolong her life and two others who now can get insurance since they can't be denied for pre-existing conditions, so...

I realize it is different state to state. But I think we have to realize as a society that something HAD to be done to prevent healthcare costs from spiraling out of control and to provide everyone a chance at getting healthcare. Sorry it doesn't seem to be working out for you.

...is this the best way to do it? I dunno....time will tell...but something had to be done.
 

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You have been subsidizing health care since the day Reagan said all ER's must treat anyone. So when you go to the hospital and you could pay, they would charge you huge amounts to make up for those that couldnt.
 

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Another vote for catastrophic high deductible coverage. Definitely make sure the kiddos have something. I haven't used it myself but I understand my state exchange has excellent options for minors. I went years without insurance and it worked out for me because I didn't need the care. I was lucky and have some good friends who did the same thing and things didn't turn out as well for them. Good luck.
 

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So let's say you get sick, but not acute enough for the ER and you can't work. ER doesn't make a person well anyways, if you get a serious medical condition. They won't give you chemo. Now you have medical bills and no work. That sounds great- not. Don't leave yourself hanging like that.

Let me tell you my story. It is extreme but can happen to anyone. I developed rheumatoid arthritis 2.5 years ago (@44 yo). I can now see back that I started having mild symptoms 2 years before that. It progressed quickly and between excruciating pain, unbelievable fatigue (out of breath going DOWN stairs) and lumps in my feet I could hardly walk and almost couldn't work. I take medication that costs over $5k a month. Now I work (not full time) and boat (nowhere near like I used to). I go see my rheumatologist and get blood work every 2 months to the tune of $500. Of I didn't have insurance not only would I no longer be able to work because I couldn't afford those out of pocket, but I'd probably be on disability. There are so many diseases that hit people, IMO it is stupid not to protect yourself especially with a family. I was fit, healthy, ate well and hadn't even really drank for 10 years and nothing else. Eat mostly organic and very little processed and no fast food. No one is immune. Cancer, MS, you name it. Imagine if your wife or child gets a serious illness and you can't afford to treat it.

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I am sorry. Autoimmune sucks. I know a little about that one.

So let's say you get sick, but not acute enough for the ER and you can't work. ER doesn't make a person well anyways, if you get a serious medical condition. They won't give you chemo. Now you have medical bills and no work. That sounds great- not. Don't leave yourself hanging like that.

Let me tell you my story. It is extreme but can happen to anyone. I developed rheumatoid arthritis 2.5 years ago (@44 yo). I can now see back that I started having mild symptoms 2 years before that. It progressed quickly and between excruciating pain, unbelievable fatigue (out of breath going DOWN stairs) and lumps in my feet I could hardly walk and almost couldn't work. I take medication that costs over $5k a month. Now I work (not full time) and boat (nowhere near like I used to). I go see my rheumatologist and get blood work every 2 months to the tune of $500. Of I didn't have insurance not only would I no longer be able to work because I couldn't afford those out of pocket, but I'd probably be on disability. There are so many diseases that hit people, IMO it is stupid not to protect yourself especially with a family. I was fit, healthy, ate well and hadn't even really drank for 10 years and nothing else. Eat mostly organic and very little processed and no fast food. No one is immune. Cancer, MS, you name it. Imagine if your wife or child gets a serious illness and you can't afford to treat it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Mountain Buzz mobile app
 

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Yep - another small business owner here, and I'm going from $200 per month to almost $600 per month for the same major medical plan, with the same $5,000 deductible. That's $12,200 per year for premiums and deductible before my insurance even kicks in! This is so absurd that I'm looking to drop health insurance for the first time in my life, and the fine will cost me almost as much to NOT have insurance as it did last year to HAVE it! Somehow this is a great improvement in "affordable" care? HA!!! Who actually believes this crap?
 

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Since insurance companies can no longer apply pre-existing conditions, I can now get my own personal policy and drop from my wife's group policy at her place of employment, which we had to pay out of pocket.
I now have better insurance with a lower deductible and save over $400 a month.

I'm not bitching, but I do think I should look into Personal Heath Account.
Any recommendations?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
An interesting character assumption... that I would expect the "system" to take care of me. I am entirely responsible for my decisions...and I would spend every day left on this earth paying for them if need be. Pride and integrity.

Please understand that I do see some positive developments regarding health care and I do realize it has helped thousands of people, probably hundreds of thousands of people. Which is what it's all about, right?

My father-in-law benefited from the pre-existing clause in his final two years on earth...dying from throat cancer. My MIL is in a good place. Some people have been able to reduce their healthcare costs. Awesome, I'm all for that.

I spent a couple years working in insurance...selling insurance (because I needed benefits for my pregnant wife). I am fairly well educated in health and life, disability, HSA's, etc. I sold them to people for almost two years...and made decent money doing it. From May of 2010 through Feb of 2012, I was educating people on insurance and the ACA...and selling policies. I have a decent understanding of how the "system" works.

As should be expected with our government...they did it wrong. They Rail-roaded a friggen disaster. And what baffles my mind is how many people think the government can do something right. They can't even deliver the mail to your front door and make it work...but somehow they can manage one of the most intricate and delicate systems in our country?

Thank you for the history lesson regarding who is really responsible for all the crazy health care costs...damn that Reagan guy for wanting people to get treated (isn't that what the rest of this is all about?).

So figure out a better way to distribute the costs (perhaps think about how to lower them)...rather than continue down the same path of expecting more from those that have continued to bare the burden.
 

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An interesting character assumption... that I would expect the "system" to take care of me. I am entirely responsible for my decisions...and I would spend every day left on this earth paying for them if need be. Pride and integrity.
Is this in response to my post? Not sure since I didn't say system. But since I referred to disability I'll take it and say that pride and integrity are luxuries of the young and healthy and youth and health are to oftwn taken foe granted. Shit happens to us sometimes and we have have no control over it, and do not stem from any of our individual decisions. Poverty or barely scraping by due to a health crisis is reality for many many many people.

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Discussion Starter #15
Pride and integrity are luxuries of the young and healthy??? Please explain...because i have based much of my life and business on the respective principles.

Nope, in response to post number two.
 

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Pride and integrity are luxuries of the young and healthy??? Please explain...because i have based much of my life and business on the respective principles.

Nope, in response to post number two.
Responding to the assumption that pride and integrity are those things that differentiated paying your own way vs having things falling apart and needing help from the system. If a medical crisis hits, those two things won't help pay the bills. But this is all moot since I was misunderstanding your response.

I am so greatful everyday for good insurance and a solid husband. Especially as I take advantage of a slow period in my business (self emp too) and go badk in the joy of some class V- boating on the Wind river!

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Thank you for the history lesson regarding who is really responsible for all the crazy health care costs...damn that Reagan guy for wanting people to get treated (isn't that what the rest of this is all about?).

So figure out a better way to distribute the costs (perhaps think about how to lower them)...rather than continue down the same path of expecting more from those that have continued to bare the burden.
So you are all for people being treated but you balk at them having to pay something for it? Interesting.

Yes, every ones health care is going up and it costs too much in this country. Its been doing that for years. Its definitely not ACA specific.
 

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The data shows that for the vast majority of people cost increases have decreased by as much as 3% since the ACA came into affect. 2010 saw an average premium increase of 11% while 2014 was 8.4%. Increases from 2008 to 2010 all exceeded the current average. While those are just average they paint a more accurate picture than than focusing on the higher or lower ends that have always existed. Its sucks you are experiencing such drastic increases but that is nothing new.

Personally...I have benefited. My wife and I now can move if career allows it. Before the ACA my pre-existing conditions would have severely limited that option if not made it impossible as we could not afford to bear the costs of medical assessment and treatment, that one year closed in on $100k.

Phillip
 

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My wife and I have benefited. I went from paying $300+ for just me, to paying $260 for my wife and I. I spent a long time comparing plans, and what we ended up with is no catastrophic, high deductible, plan. We have all wellness visits covered with no deductible. For other stuff, $1000 deductible with only a $1200 max! That's right, for every calendar year, my maximum, out of pocket will only be $1200. My last insurance ended up costing me around $5000, when I had some knee surgery. the key is I am going through Colorado's exchange.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
There's very little reason to keep my plan...over $500/month...that's the cheapest family plan available to me with a 12,000 deductible. Oh, and we can't continue to visit our normal family doctor for routine checkups (wellness visits)...we have to go to a select few Dr.'s that accept that plan. It's a Blue Cross "bronze" plan.

Family of three, all really healthy.....

I'm certainly not balking at people paying for care, damn right they should. That's not what this is about to me...this is about piling even MORE costs on to those that have always paid. I certainly understand there are many moving pieces...that's one of my points, the gov't railroaded this thing without considering thousands of other options that may have actually helped lower costs. I clearly stated that i believe there are some good things about it.
 
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