I'm typing this with the hopes of it being a no bullshit swift water rescue course discussion. I don't want to call anyone or group out or offend anybody here with this discussion. I'd like to see a place where courses are rated for their intended audience- kayakers, rafters, class I-III paddlers, Class IV/V boaters.
I feel there's a big difference between swift water classes. (Caveat I've never taken SWR in Colorado, but have put my wife through one and heard her feedback and read the class syllabus). It seemed the instructors focused solely on someone brand new to whitewater- how to swim properly, basic water reading, but then jumped to live bait rescue with really nothing in-between. Even though the course was comprised of mostly class III/IV paddlers. Obviously I think there are some issues there. They also tried telling her if you drop a carabiner even from waist height it may need to be discarded (which is a wives tale that needs to be put to bed, I don't want to argue this... it's straight from Petzl's mouth in a train the trainer course where we examined aluminum carabiners under microscope after dropping them 50' onto concrete).
I've taken 48 hours worth of SWR training but the focus was coming from a professional rescuer standpoint- not willing to take as many risks as we as kayakers may to ensure a fast rescue vs. recovery (waiting on personnel, setting up downstream high lines, etc), and skills built up over time throughout the course. The course I took was dive rescue internationals SWR I and II. I don't feel it was very adequate from a kayak standpoint. Obviously this is very instructor dependent and the course I took was in a non-whitewater state. I'm not bad mouthing DRI or the instructors in anyway.
What realistic offerings are out there for the class IV/V paddler? I know other guys that have asked to be the live bait rescuer and to jump into medium sized holes just to see what it feels like during their course and they were denied (probably for insurance purposes?). I wouldn't want my first time jumping into a hole to be the one my friend is getting chundered in. We also seem to have a lot of discussions on where to set safety (the dam on lower clear creek for example).
I started this thread for two reasons-
1) It seems there were a lot more deaths than average this year. Maybe there is a false confidence because someone took a SWR course in there 2nd or 3rd year of boating and now it's 5 years later and they're paddling class 4/5. Acknowledging the fact that refreshers are important, a lot of those skills originally learned when they were class II/III paddlers probably aren't adequate anymore or don't apply.
2) For myself. It's been 4 years since my course. I got on big water class IV this year and see myself doing a lot more of that next season (fingers crossed mother nature cooperates!) and probably stepping it up a bit more. Myself and my crew are probably not adequately trained IMO. Watching the OBJ pin video is a perfect example, they seemed to be a very solid crew. I don't believe most people would think to setup what looks similar to a V-lower but from below.
Comments/references? Does anyone want to have an informal get together to go over some of this stuff? Maybe some things that a formal SWR course are afraid to do in a class setting?
I feel there's a big difference between swift water classes. (Caveat I've never taken SWR in Colorado, but have put my wife through one and heard her feedback and read the class syllabus). It seemed the instructors focused solely on someone brand new to whitewater- how to swim properly, basic water reading, but then jumped to live bait rescue with really nothing in-between. Even though the course was comprised of mostly class III/IV paddlers. Obviously I think there are some issues there. They also tried telling her if you drop a carabiner even from waist height it may need to be discarded (which is a wives tale that needs to be put to bed, I don't want to argue this... it's straight from Petzl's mouth in a train the trainer course where we examined aluminum carabiners under microscope after dropping them 50' onto concrete).
I've taken 48 hours worth of SWR training but the focus was coming from a professional rescuer standpoint- not willing to take as many risks as we as kayakers may to ensure a fast rescue vs. recovery (waiting on personnel, setting up downstream high lines, etc), and skills built up over time throughout the course. The course I took was dive rescue internationals SWR I and II. I don't feel it was very adequate from a kayak standpoint. Obviously this is very instructor dependent and the course I took was in a non-whitewater state. I'm not bad mouthing DRI or the instructors in anyway.
What realistic offerings are out there for the class IV/V paddler? I know other guys that have asked to be the live bait rescuer and to jump into medium sized holes just to see what it feels like during their course and they were denied (probably for insurance purposes?). I wouldn't want my first time jumping into a hole to be the one my friend is getting chundered in. We also seem to have a lot of discussions on where to set safety (the dam on lower clear creek for example).
I started this thread for two reasons-
1) It seems there were a lot more deaths than average this year. Maybe there is a false confidence because someone took a SWR course in there 2nd or 3rd year of boating and now it's 5 years later and they're paddling class 4/5. Acknowledging the fact that refreshers are important, a lot of those skills originally learned when they were class II/III paddlers probably aren't adequate anymore or don't apply.
2) For myself. It's been 4 years since my course. I got on big water class IV this year and see myself doing a lot more of that next season (fingers crossed mother nature cooperates!) and probably stepping it up a bit more. Myself and my crew are probably not adequately trained IMO. Watching the OBJ pin video is a perfect example, they seemed to be a very solid crew. I don't believe most people would think to setup what looks similar to a V-lower but from below.
Comments/references? Does anyone want to have an informal get together to go over some of this stuff? Maybe some things that a formal SWR course are afraid to do in a class setting?