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Discussion Starter #1
So i watch these kinds of videos so much that ive devolooed an un healthy ideas that it must just be not so hard. I mean look how easy . No swimmers , no stuck in holes. Shit i bet i can do it too! Of course i couldnt/wont/never will. So....
1- just how much better than us are these guys?
2- how dangerous are these runs for them?
3- do ordinary dudes make these runs too?
4- did our pioneers die in these things?
Yes iam a dumbass but when i was a kid dudes didnt back flip bicycles. Like to hear what a normal "good" kayaker says before i go boofing off to die cause "it looks easy on you tube"
https://youtu.be/3hcfmeeciog
 

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Agreed that most of it is the individual paddler's skill set.

Based on many many decades of kayaking, another thing I have seen is just how good current designs of boats and paddles are along with things like dry suits that make cold weather a lot more comfortable. The new gear makes the more skilled paddlers even better.
 

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There is a tremendous amount of skill displayed in this video but it doesn't really convey the most difficult part - the boat/shore scouting and line identification that happens before all of the highlight clips. It looks easy, and honestly much the actually rapid running is easy (although a few parts in there are super hairball) because they called it correctly before the video even started. Without the experience to do that most people wouldn't even get close to making it down the river before having a really bad time.
 

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I think it really is that easy, and I bet I could do the same if I posted my POV footage on YouTube. See, it's all in the editing. Every time the camera goes underwater, either because I am window shading, carping, or swimming, I just cut film to the next place I am in my boat and right side up. Then the world thinks I am mr. Amazing kayaker. Just don't show the video taken from shore of what really happened.

Without proper editing, I'd look more like this video:
https://youtu.be/h4UKCLyx8N4
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Dude your ready to send it! Lets go! We can do all those gnarly creeks together no problem!! We just need some sponsers cause iam kinda broke. Do you have a sprinter van we can use?
 

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So i watch these kinds of videos so much that ive devolooed an un healthy ideas that it must just be not so hard. I mean look how easy . No swimmers , no stuck in holes. Shit i bet i can do it too! Of course i couldnt/wont/never will. So....
1- just how much better than us are these guys?
2- how dangerous are these runs for them?
3- do ordinary dudes make these runs too?
4- did our pioneers die in these things?
Yes iam a dumbass but when i was a kid dudes didnt back flip bicycles. Like to hear what a normal "good" kayaker says before i go boofing off to die cause "it looks easy on you tube"
https://youtu.be/3hcfmeeciog
1. Way better.

2. The more often skilled paddlers negotiate challenging and dangerous situations, the better they become at doing these things. If you kayak 40 hours per week you can get pretty good.

3. Yes.

4. The river is forgiving until it's not.

A 3 minute video doesn't show you the years or decades of kayaking progression that leads to achievements like a single day descent of Fantasy Falls. We also aren't seeing the hours of cross training many big timers put into their lives. Multiple familiarity runs also give you the ability to route into rapids that would otherwise be a scout. In the comments Aniol even says he was dealing with injuries and didn't run some of the stouts.
 

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Damn i 'm getting old..Dane Jackson has a beard..the new elite boaters seem to be much more polished...old hair boaters were plenty good and I have seen plenty of gnarlier looking runs than that in old school vids but I think there was more carnage and close calls...when this used to be more of a kayaking forum there were a fair amount of excellent boaters who ran very serious runs....like someone noted time in the boat is huge ,even Joe average becomes much better,more comfortable,and confident,with a lot of challenging recent runs........
 

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You gotta respect the Old Guys. They know stuff. (If we can remember it!)
Don't take un-calculated risks. They are just foolishness.
A lot of fun can be had just watching the river go by, or tossing sticks into a small stream.

(And don't Ever pick a fight with a Really Old Guy. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill ya.;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well iam old and it looks fun but...i would die iam pretty sure and i finally dont live in a van and my kids are super cool so maybe next life! Funny how off the charts the stuff kids do now. I remeber being stoked to land a jump but i never even dreamed to do this shit. I used to box and my last fight i was 37 or 38 and i got beat up prettt bad by a 17 yr old kid. I started doing masters division tournaments! Much better! Last one i did there was a crazy fit mean old dude who won the 80 years and up lol! 89 years old lol! So i guess class 2 is my masters division lol!!
 

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One thing about YouTube is they post a lot of the worst of the worst . Nobody wants to see the good runs they all want to see carnage . That’s just the nature of YouTube. Best to get local information and scout out the big Rapids yourself.
 

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If it spits you out, you live. If it keeps you under too long, you die. There's not an awful lot of degrees of injury in between, except how much equipment you break and cost of rescue, etc. So ... how dangerous is it?

Take skydiving as an example. The odds are 54,000:1 that your main or reserve chute will open. Those are good odds. Put what are the stakes of the game?
Even wading in swiftly moving current is often lethal. Alcohol and no PFD (life vest) increase your odds of death on the water by a factor of 20x.

But Mama said I was born to be hung, so I've no fear of drowning.
 

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First you have to consider who those guys are. Aniole and Dane are arguably the best paddlers in the world.

I often compare it to two runners where one is running a 4:00 mile and the other is running a 4:30 mile. To the average person both of those times are insane, but to the runners that 30 second gap is massive and for the one runner to catch the other would take years of training and progression, like Tango said. The gap in skills really is that large even in the fundamentals of strokes and edge control.

As far as dangerous, the safest place to be is in your boat. These guys have a vast skill set that keeps them in the boat in times where most boaters, even expert level paddlers, would be forced out of their boat into the water. Pros have been repeatedly exposed to bad situations in their boats and have an immediate reaction of how to get out of them (Walled in eddies, terminal holes, bad lines, etc)

Finally, the paddling community has lost a lot of people at some point, highlighting hazards and where to be on certain rapids. Some of those people were the best paddlers in the world at the time and others were everyday boaters. Some examples would be Big Brother (Green Truss, White Salmon), Black Canyon of the Gunnison, Chief (Green River Narrows). I am sure paddlers from the late 90's were shocked with some of those when they happened and now the lines are set in stone for Big Brother and Chief. Again in agreement with Tango, it's forgiving until it's not.

To see some locals firing just drive up to Lake Creek on almost any given week night after work, Paralyzer literally shakes the ground when you scout it but crews still get after it all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Awsome posts! You guys know i was kidding right? Iam nervous to get flipped in class 3 more or less run this crazy stuff lol! Ill be the guy though that gets hurt in fkatwater though cause now i say,"oh come on ..its not the stikine!" Skinny little Spaniard is a magician huh? Gawd its so smooth and looks easy! Anyway i just didnt want you guys to think i was as dumb as i look. Yeah no xherry creek no stikine no burly in there boofn waterfalls in my future iam afraid. Maybe if iam good ill get anothet chance in the next life...that seems odd though to be good so you can reincarnate to risk certain death in hairball stuff lol! Heres a video i LOVE LOVE LOVE. this dude man charged it ! Said,"fuck it "iam giving this shit my full attention and went leaps and bounds ahead of most in just 3 years!!!
https://youtu.be/FSdXmjG13JY
 

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Do you kayak the Gallatin?


Compare me or you running down it and having a good day to the super skilled guys who playboat it when it's going over House Rock. Yeah, they're that good, but you could look pretty good if you boated the Gally 3-4x a week all season....take you off the Gally and you wouldn't know the lines, but you'd still be a pretty solid boater.



1- just how much better than us are these guys?
2- how dangerous are these runs for them?
3- do ordinary dudes make these runs too?
4- did our pioneers die in these things?

1. Way better
2. Still dangerous, but far more so for us than for them.
3. Yes, if you're a local and run it all season and know it like the back of your hand.
4. Yes, we are standing on the shoulders of giants. Some of them passed.
 

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Yes, the paddlers (and cyclists) are good, very good. Yet, they are human. And, editing software is great as are the video editors. My 30+ years experience in the cycling world, and you mentioned backflips, it takes lots of training and trial & error before you start getting it right. Yet, bad timing or lines do happen. And, the same goes with professional kayakers. I can assure you, if you saw what was edited out from cycling and kayaking videos, you will conclude these athletes are mortal. I can assure you, there comes a big price and greater potential consequences when an athlete is a Red Bull athlete. It also suggests they do set the bar very high as an athlete.
 
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