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Is there a whitewater park being built in Ft. Collins? If so when will it be built and how many waves?
 

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The rumor is that a very small playpark will be built just downstream of College Ave. It will have 3 play features as I hear it. I think the guys at The Mountain Shop may have more info. As far as opinions go, here's one. Unless the powers that be can get some guaranteed flows through town, it will be a nice rock pile. Some of the very "green" folks here in the Fort, don't want development along the river at all. Good luck with access and flows to all.
 

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OK - how about a little more positive attitude here fellas. The money is nearly there and consturction may start as early as late this spring. What we need is support from within the community. Yes, there is a small contingent of "green" activistists fighting development along the river corridor. Problem is, I don't think too many of these folks have been down there recently as there is 1) already an old diversion dam in place, 2) trash everywhere along the banks, 3) invasive species "flourishing" and 4) an already transformed riverbed. All in all, this no longer a "natural" river corridor as is.
The proposed river park aims to clean up this zone, plant native species, create aquatic wildlife habitat by forming defined pools and eddy lines and generally create a more pleasant atmosphere where everyone will want to hang out - not just the local homeless population. This play park will be a big deal in Fort Collins, will have an extremely postitive effect on the north downtown area and will have plenty of flow during the spring and summer months. Late season agricultural demand will provide "off-season" opportunities to play and three features is better than zero. Think about it - it will be a safe place for kids and others to learn to paddle, have a quick lunch session when you don't have time to drive up the canyon and practice slalom (eventually).
There will be some fundraising events this spring and the best thing you can do to help this park is to stay positive and attend these fundraisers. If you are interested in helping in a more committed way contact Matt Evans at [email protected]
 

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My senior engineering project is to design the park. The town will put in two drops just below the existing structures. We surveyed the entire site recently with the latest GPS technology. It didnt come as a surprise to me when the data verified that there is 1' 4" of elevation drop from start of the park to the end. Thats 8" per drop. So dont get to excited... :cry: I wouldn't even bother.

If we could modify the upstream structure it would give about 6 feet of additional head to work with, (more than enough for some epic drops) but the town says...NO!

Constuction is planned to begin next fall and park should be finished in the spring of 2008.
 

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hmmn... 8 inches per drop won't be very good...

I'm not an engineer and may be missing something, but could they go for a reconfiguration of the top drop right below the bridge on College Ave? From observing other successful features around the state, shortening and perhaps steepening the concrete apron and deepening the pool behind it could turn that first drop into a nice feature. If they'd go ahead and put concrete rather than boulders on the second drop, the water would have m-wave type velocity that could create something worthwhile.....a consult with playpark engineers that do this all the time could change some minds within the development team.

Apologies up front if the previous post has been misread. Are there really plans to use a college class to engineer the drops? Not to rag on a class project, but wouldn't it be better to actually use the people that design these parks for a living? Lacy, Shipley, et al. only seem to get it right 1/4 of the time as it is. It would stink to invest all that time, money, and planning and have nothing to show for it. It's the responsibility of the boaters to keep the city planners on track. They may not understand the "art" that goes into making these riverbed modifications work. Just my 0.02.

Brandon
 

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Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of developing a river corridor that reflects well on the Fort and improves the North College Corridor. I have not boated Golden, but have visited. I'm very impressed. How nice would it be to have a place like that here in the Fort? Matt, and others, have invested much personal time to this project. I've heard they've even purchased some water rights to keep some water in the Poudre. I am disheartened by some who would keep the river the way it is to retain its "natural beauty" on this very short stretch that is kind of an eyesore as it exists.

Thanks for calling me on the "negativity". I may have been caught venting some frustrations.
 

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Re: hmmn... 8 inches per drop won't be very good...

brandonschmit said:
Apologies up front if the previous post has been misread. Are there really plans to use a college class to engineer the drops? Not to rag on a class project, but wouldn't it be better to actually use the people that design these parks for a living? Lacy, Shipley, et al. only seem to get it right 1/4 of the time as it is. It would stink to invest all that time, money, and planning and have nothing to show for it. It's the responsibility of the boaters to keep the city planners on track. They may not understand the "art" that goes into making these riverbed modifications work. Just my 0.02.

Brandon
I dont know if you read the previous post but I'm one of those college kids. And "NO" the town is not using us to design the drops. It's merely a school project. The town will of course review the design but in the end I believe a qualified team of engineers will be doing the final design. Hopefully Lacy. And for good reason to. I am the only avid kayaker on my team and these people have no clue what it takes to make a good drop. None of them a have even been to a kayak park. They are way more focused on getting this thing finished and a grade put on it than designing a good drop. I mean my team is starting to dislike me because I am trying to push for a better design, and by doing that I am making the project harder and more complicated for them.
And those poor suckers down at the city also have no clue!!!!! I mean just absolutely no clue what it takes to make a nice wave. There plan is to make a park that everyone can use (like tubers). They even think that the course will be used to run, over and over again. I tried to explain to them that kayakers will be playing IN the wave!!! Not just running through it!! And making novice features will not bring kayakers from a far. Beginer kayakers will also grow out the drops in a few weeks anyways. We should try to build something that keeps people coming back. They just dont understand that all levels of kayakers can still play on an advanced drop (look at salida). I wish they would just grow some balls and build us a sick place to play.

Ohh and they don't want to touch the riverbed or any of the structures up stream. The sad thing is...is that there is so much potential to have a great feature, but the city will never let it happen. What the city needs is to get the boating communities input on this matter, so we can get something gnarly built. Ever since the mountain shop gave the project to the city I knew it wasn't going to be good. Who wants to play at a little 6" drop anyways when there is epic boating 15 mins up the road. We have had about 4 meetings with the city and this is just the general impression that I get and its just so discouraging.
 

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I think it took years of work for the Pueblo crew to make their park happen. The city council has to be shown how beautiful the park can be and what a draw it is. Salida and Pueblo are the models from what I have seen. Can you do a presentation showing Salida on a June day with the kids on their bikes and people paddling? If they could see that part, they might change their mind.
 

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gh said:
I think it took years of work for the Pueblo crew to make their park happen. The city council has to be shown how beautiful the park can be and what a draw it is. Salida and Pueblo are the models from what I have seen. Can you do a presentation showing Salida on a June day with the kids on their bikes and people paddling? If they could see that part, they might change their mind.
GH your exactly right; the city needs to be shown how attractive a park can be. Since the town wants this to be a park for all skill levels I thought we should use golden as a model for the 2 drops that are going to be put in place. But Craig Foreman the City Planner has said outright that they do not wish this park to be like that of Golden's and Golden is to advanced. How can golden be too advanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would think golden is a place for all levels. Arrgh.
Maybe some paddlers from the community could get together this spring and have a meeting with the planning dept?
 

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As a member of the board of the Pueblo Paddlers I can tell you that our park would never have happened if it were not considered a fish ladder first. Sometimes you have to give an inch to get a mile. Politicians find it much easier to make river improvements for some reason when it is designed to improve the fishing. And you know, that is fine with me. I think improving the fishing habitat helps everyone.

So my advice would be to be prepared for plenty of opposition to any stucture in any river. However it is amazing how attitudes change when the discussion turns to money and economic benefit. When surrounding businesses realize that there is money to be made from boaters who visit such a facility, they will eventually get on the bandwagon. There is a whitewater course in South Bend Indiana. When the Pueblo course was on the drawing board there was a video that the South Bend folks produced and sent to the Pueblo City Council. It basically said if you have a river and you don't have a whitewater park you are letting a stream of money pass you by.

I say don't let them build something that no one will use. Holding out for what boaters and fishermen will be happiest with will be worth it in the long run. Persistance pays off and if they build something that no one uses then they will say, "See we told you this wouldn't work."

I wish you in FC all the best and hope that with the help of someone like Gary Lacy that your city will see the light and build something amazing.

You can see work being done on our fish ladder....er....whitewater park at the blog address below.

-Bryan
Pueblo Paddlers
http://paddlepueblo.blogspot.com
 

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I posted this awhile ago, check it out then take your foot out of your mouth;

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?t=12304&highlight=rfp

The park is being built. A designer should be under contract soon and construction is planned for next fall/winter. Things can still happen to delay the project but the wheels are turning. The drops will not be designed by students at CSU. The plans will need to be stamped my a professional engineer not a guppie, hence the RFP. My guess is Lacy will be the designing but becuase it is a COFC project now it has to be put out to bid.

As far as the park goes, its going to kick as and if I see any nay sayers out there after it is built I'm going to make you drink a beer out of my stanky never washed 3-yr old bootie. Got it. Yes, the gradient isn't huge but its enough. The idea is to back water up against the existing chute with the first structure effectively increasing the gradient (EGL) through the park. Honestly the channel slope through the park doesn't mean squat. The trick will be not causing a rise the the FEMA base flood elevations by placing the strucuture in a regulated floodway.


Take that suckas and next time try to realize that many people have donated a lot of time and energy to get this thing done and coming in near the end of the project planning and kicking them in the delicates isn't really appreciated.
 

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If you had read the post before it stated the park would not be designed by college kids. But do to that project those college kids have aquired alot of the facts about the park! Also I dont think you have ever heard of the term "100 year flood plain". Backing up water is a good idea in theory however it increases the 100year flood plain.
 

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Okay you want a walk off, everyone its a walk off, there's no holding me back Billy Zaine.

I think you're confused about many things but mainly the scale of things here. The 100-yr FEMA flow for that reach of river is around 13,300 cfs from the FIS report. In the last 5-yrs the peak flow for the Poudre in town was 2,300cfs in 2003. From 2000-2002 the highest flow was 785cfs. While the park will need to modeled using the FEMA Q for regulatory compliance it will be designed with something a lot smaller probably 400-800cfs. So the hope is that while the park is planned to back water up for normal operating flows for the FEMA Q the RR bridge immediately downstream and other controls will drown out any effect of the park and we will meet FEMA compliance issues.

I don’t want to puff my chest to big but I’m feeling a little feisty today and you should just step off or I’m gonna have to boof on top of your head when the narrows starts running. My firm did the preliminary modeling of the park to even see if it was possible at that location and get COFC approval for the concept and I just finished remapping the Poudre floodplain immediately upstream of College so I think I have a good handle on things in that area.
 

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I have the FEMA effective model for the reach sitting right in front of me. I'd be happy to email it to you if want to take a peak. And all that flow data you have sounds pretty correct, however its not that significant. What I meant is you cant just go throwing a bunch of rocks in the river to raise the flow depth !! Its illegal. This would obviously raise the 100 year flood plain. Sorry I dont know if you got the memo but last I checked you couldnt do that. Lets look at some other parks like pueblo for example. They didnt get there park built by throwing some rocks in there. They removed the dam and created a series of sucsesesive drops. In just about all cases the head was already there. You cant just raise the water level to whatever you desire. How much it can be raised is the question. So I wouldn't go "boofin on anyones head" just yet.
I dont think you need to be raggin on students either, arnt you a grad student anyways?? Ohh wait does that make you better? Or did you just graduate and now you have real engineering job and know it all?

I know the town is not planning on building anykind of advanced drops and it would be a shame and a big waste to see all that money, time and effort go into building something that will just be "OK". It would surely be a huge loss for everyone.
 

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Damn, Force has some crazy nerd skills, they might even be better than his boofing skills, which you don't want any part of.

We are working on the city officials too, tyring help them understand, many meetings have been had and are scheduled.

But in the end, it will dope enough that even Force might learn how to throw down.
 

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What about the water that is going to be diverted from the Poudre to the new reservoir by Ted's Place? Their allotted water will trump any play park in the Fort.
 

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dude,

I'm not ragging on students I'm spefically ragging on you. Saying that you wouldn't even bother building the park is a slap in the face to everyone who has donated time, energy, and money to get this thing done especially when you don't really know what your talking about. While I think you had good intentions in trying to help your attitude sucks.

I you want a lesson in floodplain hydraulics give me a call 988-5502, I do it everyday. Causing a rise in the 100-yr BFE's is not illegal but normally and in this case not allowed. Causing a rise at lower flows is completely legal and done often for all kinds of projects.
 

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No what I am saying is:
I know the town is not planning on building anykind of advanced drops and it would be a shame and a big waste to see all that money, time and effort go into building something that will just be "OK". It would surely be a huge loss for everyone.

Its just that so many drops have been built in the past and people hype them up and say that they are going to be so killer. Then they get built and no one even uses them. I dont want that to happen in my town. How can I be excited when I have the city planner telling me that that a park like Goldens is to advanced for fort collins? This is basically what it comes down to. Even if we could back up enough water the town doesn't want an advanced play spot. And that is where the problem lies.
 

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funds

Hey all, related to raising more funds for the park (which will kick ass if Force is on it)

I will be showing 'Light in Liquid: a kayak collage of movement and sound' at New Belgium April 19th, 8 - 10 pm, it features the rivers of colorado (especially the big south) and Mexico and many local paddlers.

I will be posting details here soon with a website where you san see some of the film. Its a creative grassroots piece with some great music. Some of the funds will go toward the park as I did two years ago. Beers will be flowing and good times will be had.

Force, is there a chance that an RFP can go out to Ben Selznik and team, they did the utah feature (sorry this is so vague), ask dano, he has their info. I know he was concerned about Lacie doing park.
 
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