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My wife and I had planned a raft trip for Monday 30th but with Colorado lawfully shut and all of us ordered to "stay in place" we are debating if we should go. It is just going to be the two of us, we thought it would be a great way to enjoy our quarantine without going absolutely stir crazy. We havent left our house (our property) for 15 days! Is the "MAN" going to crack down on us if we get stopped on our way to the put-in? Am I being entirely too selfish even considering going???
 

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So it's great that y'all have been hunkered down for 2 weeks - it sounds like you're taking things with the appropriate seriousness. - Good on you! Now as for going boating it always seems like we'll be in our own little bubble for the entire trip. But this is seldom the case - we stop along the way, get gas and food, a bag of ice and some frosty beverages, hire/catch a shuttle, and so on. Even taking very diligent precautions you're opening yourself up to getting the bug from someone else. You're also setting the example for other, likely less diligent, folks out there that it's fine to be going out boating and encouraging them to move around during the current crisis.

There's also the issue of whether camping or overnight stays wherever you're planning to go is allowed. If that's part of your trip, then there's no decision.

So on the graphic below, maybe you could be the one that stayed home. That's what the TL did with our permit and no one complained.

 
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I've been a good person by following the major rules of the game plan by isolating myself from public contact, hope it works with millions of players in the field. But as river runners we all know to always have game plan's B, C, D in our hip pocket ready to go if shit doesn't go as planned, we would be irresponsible if we did not, for our families, loved ones and friends sake.
 

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The stay at home "order", has no teeth. It is a request, not a law. The governor even stated that before he made the "order".


I saw lots of cars with bikes, and campers today. People are getting out to have fun. I say good!
 

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Another thing to consider is that if (highly unlikely, I'm sure) you were to have any kind of incident and needed help/emergency services, you are now putting stress on an already maxed out emergency services/health care system....or you might not get any help at all.
 

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To no surprise whatsoever with it being the internet and all....I got no end of shit from the internet morality patrol vigilantes for asking if anyone was doing a Deso trip and had any spots available on one of the facebook pages. I ended up deleting the thread 20 minutes after I posted it because the only answers I was getting were barely veiled diatribes about how horrible and irresponsible a person I was for even considering going out and I was having a hard time holding back about how I felt about those people. It was going nowhere good.

Anyways... I think it is completely reasonable and not particularly irresponsible to go get away from people in the wild as long as you take precautions and are realistic about it. Some places have a true public health order in place saying not to and threatening fines and jail time (ironic to threaten to dump people into a confined space with a bunch of other people for going out and staying away from people) so maybe avoid those areas.

I think this is serious and there are some real threats to our health care system...but I'm not convinced being holed up at home is the best or only way to deal with it.

Honestly... you should probably go do it. Like others have said...they aren't really doing any enforcement even in areas like Moab (if the scuttle butt is correct) that have a pretty harshly worded stop order on coming to the area. I would say buy supplies near home, and only stop for gas, and limit the trip size. Do your own shuttle...and be self reliant for any incidents that happen. If any of that sounds unreasonable...stay home and wait it out.

I'd do it quietly though...otherwise you'll bring out the internet morality patrol. I'd even consider deleting this thread.
 

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Hey there. Thanks for posting this. I was just pondering the same question. Actually, I called the BLM office for Ruby and asked if there were any restrictions under the current order in place. They said currently there was not. We are a family of 4 (and one lazy dog) and have been practicing good social responsibility with respect to distance, frequency to stores and public places... hell... even restricting our kids from certain types of outdoor play with their friends and neighboorhood kids. Trying to do what we can. However, I fail to see how being diligent with the same type of measures in putting in on a river trip would expose us or others more than what we are doing now. If the BLM has not restricted any permits on Ruby, we are going to make a 3 night trip. Not eating out or grabbing a "frosty beverage" (WTF?) on the way during this time. The only exposure will be my hand touching a gas pump handle. Even planning to not allow the family to use public restrooms and shit in the groover on the way! I think that if you are responsible, and minimize the risk (as much as you would being home and going to the store, gas station, etc..), then there is no difference.
 

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To no surprise whatsoever with it being the internet and all....I got no end of shit from the internet morality patrol vigilantes for asking if anyone was doing a Deso trip and had any spots available on one of the facebook pages. I ended up deleting the thread 20 minutes after I posted it because the only answers I was getting were barely veiled diatribes about how horrible and irresponsible a person I was for even considering going out and I was having a hard time holding back about how I felt about those people. It was going nowhere good.

Anyways... I think it is completely reasonable and not particularly irresponsible to go get away from people in the wild as long as you take precautions and are realistic about it. Some places have a true public health order in place saying not to and threatening fines and jail time (ironic to threaten to dump people into a confined space with a bunch of other people for going out and staying away from people) so maybe avoid those areas.

I think this is serious and there are some real threats to our health care system...but I'm not convinced being holed up at home is the best or only way to deal with it.

Honestly... you should probably go do it. Like others have said...they aren't really doing any enforcement even in areas like Moab (if the scuttle butt is correct) that have a pretty harshly worded stop order on coming to the area. I would say buy supplies near home, and only stop for gas, and limit the trip size. Do your own shuttle...and be self reliant for any incidents that happen. If any of that sounds unreasonable...stay home and wait it out.

I'd do it quietly though...otherwise you'll bring out the internet morality patrol. I'd even consider deleting this thread.
100% agree... One of the things that came out in the aftermath today (on the 1200 call) was to enjoy the State and City parks but be responsible. Keep you social distance. So what makes you any worse than the guy stopping for gas on the way to Wash Park? As others have said.... be smart, wash your hands, sanitize as necessary.... If it the two of you have fun! I am jealous.... my gear is spread out over the floor of the garage... I may have to throw it in the boat!
 

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Hey, if you know any Healthcare Pros make sure you send them trip photo's when you get back. I am sure it will boost their morale if they have time to look at them.

Signed,
Snitty for a reason

Who's an anonymous coward?
Do you need a name, address, phone number, life history to not be "anonymous"?
 

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To no surprise whatsoever with it being the internet and all....I got no end of shit from the internet morality patrol vigilantes for asking if anyone was doing a Deso trip and had any spots available on one of the facebook pages. I ended up deleting the thread 20 minutes after I posted it because the only answers I was getting were barely veiled diatribes about how horrible and irresponsible a person I was for even considering going out and I was having a hard time holding back about how I felt about those people. It was going nowhere good.

Anyways... I think it is completely reasonable and not particularly irresponsible to go get away from people in the wild as long as you take precautions and are realistic about it. Some places have a true public health order in place saying not to and threatening fines and jail time (ironic to threaten to dump people into a confined space with a bunch of other people for going out and staying away from people) so maybe avoid those areas.

I think this is serious and there are some real threats to our health care system...but I'm not convinced being holed up at home is the best or only way to deal with it.

Honestly... you should probably go do it. Like others have said...they aren't really doing any enforcement even in areas like Moab (if the scuttle butt is correct) that have a pretty harshly worded stop order on coming to the area. I would say buy supplies near home, and only stop for gas, and limit the trip size. Do your own shuttle...and be self reliant for any incidents that happen. If any of that sounds unreasonable...stay home and wait it out.

I'd do it quietly though...otherwise you'll bring out the internet morality patrol. I'd even consider deleting this thread.
Thank you for your honest approach to my question.
I have no problem being flammed by the anonymous cowards on the internet. I knew there would be negative feed back. Simple advice is all I am after and I will take how I can get it.
 

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Tons of folks hitting the trails on mountain bikes today outside Golden. I went up into the hills to sight in my new Virus Zombie rifle for a couple hours this afternoon. There were a couple sheriffs standing around their trucks, shooting the shit with each other at the gas station I stopped at and didn’t seem bothered by folks going about their day.

Not making light of the situation but using some common sense goes a long way, too.
 

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Just the two of you? I say go if you can avoid exposure. My wife and I went to the Oregon coast last weekend with our land raft. No stopping for fuel or food or a bag of ice or frosty beverages and no shuttle. We had contact with no one, used our hand wash and our own groover. Hiking in the fresh air and sunshine was uplifting.
 

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Rant...

As a preamble, my partner is a pulmonologist in SFO...


As outdoor folks we are usually pretty self sufficient. Hell, this current "shelter-in-place" or whatever your state is doing probably feels pretty silly if you are used to going on multi day river trips or overland camping. The problem is every f%$king person that lives in a city thinks that they aren't the problem. I live in Portland (but grew up in rural KY) and after the "stay at home" order our Governor gave the following weekend there were hours long traffic jams to get 75 miles to the coast and costal goverments were calling for a state wide shelter in place because of the goobers that wanted to "get out of town for the weekend."


Just
Dont!
Stay at home!


It will probably last a few months, but no matter if you bring your groover and wear gloves pumping gas there are easily 100 people not as safe as you doing the same thing. As unfortunate as it is we're in a lowest common denominator situation. So as much as I'm sure all of you could make a safe river trip, if you do there are going to be an exponential amount of people that use the privilege you had to take that river trip to do f$%$ing stupid travel plans and keep infecting small communities.


One of my favorite small town businesses, The Deschutes Angler, who's lifeblood is tourism has posted on their fishing report that even if they have to go under this year they would hope people stay away from Maupin, OR during this crisis.


So please, watch some Netflix. Collect unemployment. I own a small business and have had to lay off folks , but please stay at home. The more people that do this the sooner we can get back to normal.
 

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This came across my desk this morning, explains a lot about the virus... And FWIW, past a daily hike in the BLM, my wife and I have been sheltering in place..


John Hopkins University

Here is a little more information on the virus that may help explain a few things that people don’t understand. This is from an immunologist at Johns Hopkins University.

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, that’s what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s going to be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now.

#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that just are not catching on.
 

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Wadeinthewater,

That is a great looking 'land raft'

Now that I am getting older and with a beat up body

Those pull behind little campers with a dry and warm place to sleep is looking
better and better for my old tacoma to pull.

great photo
 

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And more "healthy" advice.

https://www.popsci.com/story/enviro...outside/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email

I've been taking the above and the governors advice, i.e. to exercise exercising extreme caution. I've even been boating traveling about 10 miles to sea kayak at Chatfield St Park but never getting anywhere close to recommended set backs(Chatfield is not closed and very few people, so far).

You don't mention where you are going. They may already be closed to receiving visitors. A friend flew his private plane to Moab a few days ago where he had just hoped to camp with his teenage young-lings on the airport margins. They asked him to move along and he flew to Dove Creek. Out of respect, perhaps strongly worded stay away orders shouldn't need "enforcement". If where you are going says don't come, then you shouldn't go.

It is a personal and moral decision that likely falls into the category "don't ask, don't tell". It is also a decision to be made understanding that you are making a decision that might/will not just effect you.
 

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I'm going to change my tune a lot. When it turns out that where you are going is turning into traffic jam, such as Loveland Pass or the Oregon coast west of Portland, maybe any uncontrolled river put-in, you should not go to such places.

Choose where you are going very wisely. Especially maybe keep it close to home. Everywhere between here and where ever is likely saying stay away. Be thoughtful.

A shelter in place order should not be an invitation to party at trail heads and launches.
 

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Historically I've been on the side that says "stick it to the man" or "do what you want" or "send it!". I would love nothing more than to get the F out of my house to boat, hike, ski, bike, etc. "The man" might be saying don't go. However, this isn't exactly "the man" we are fighting.

For this virus (that has NO safety net) I ask this question of you - How do your actions weigh up to the impacts it could have to yourself and others?

If your scale is heavy towards "I'm certain I'm the only one impacted", then do it.
If the scale reads anything else, I'm of the opinion it's just not fucking worth it.

PS. USA now has the highest total cases worldwide.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
 

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A shelter in place order should not be an invitation to party at trail heads and launches.
Really? Who on this thread is advocating for a "party at trail heads and launches (sites)" Same sort of eye roll is applicable to Andy H. comment about stopping in for a "frosty beverage". Following the issued order for social distance and exercising extreme thought, caution, and discipline in how and what (and around whom) you are around has NOTHING to do with partying or stopping in for beers at a watering hole. I am more concerned with exposure traveling 1.8 miles down the road to my local Safeway than I am driving for hours, isolated, and camping at undeveloped sites shitting and pissing in my own groover (yep... I pee in the groover so there) AWAY from people. Be realistic with your comparisons people... nobody is saying lets jump on the party wagon and hit Miami beach with crowds of people!!!!.... duhhh...
 
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