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We can debate this one day around a campfire, but I don't think there's really a right or wrong decision to be made (talking to you, @MNichols !)
Yep, am a traditioonal ribbed boat guy. More cause that's what I learned from Brad Dimock than anything else.. My big boat, Bears Ears was made that way, and I couldn't find any fault with it. Bitttersweet that she's gone now, but she was simply too big for my tired old ass to row. I think traditional Briggs designs are stronger at the end of the day, by what percentage is debatable, like the thought that should it need repairs, you can span the plywood between bows, as opposed to trying to scarf into a sheet with no real support. Have nothing against a stitch and glue boat, I own one and damn near just bought one that a friend built, but were I to embark on a new build, it's a 90% chance it'd be a traditional ribbed Briggs design.
 
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For some reason, MB duplicated my last post. Deleted here, nothing to see folks LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Bitttersweet that she's gone now, but she was simply too big for my tired old ass to row.
After seeing Wild Child and even having long monkey arms, that’s a BIG boat.

heck I have mucho respect for smaller guides who row a GC boat with four custies. No thanks!!!


Boat Watercraft Wood Boats and boating--Equipment and supplies Vehicle

Buddy of mine just got a 15’ dory with Briggs GC width and depth. She’s pretty sweet. Needs TLC but has pretty lines and was built well…like Derald Stewart quality
Guessing 400-450-ish lbs

think traditional Briggs designs are stronger at the end of the day, by what percentage is debatable, like the thought that should it need repairs, you can span the plywood between bows, as opposed to trying to scarf into a sheet with no real support.
imho theglass is stiff enough to hold a screw.
It all comes down to your preferred maintenance regimen.

and “boat soup” does smell lovely.
 

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Wild Child is a huge boat, she was the first copy of Bears Ears..

I love boat soup, and especially the use if it negating the need to sand everything that's varnished / epoxy every couple years and recoat.

The class may be stiff enough to hold s screw, but just barely if at all. It'd be interesting to see just what it would hold vs cedar.. I'm thinking it'd not be much of a contest, not to mention getting one out for another repair..
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I mean glass/wood/glass holding a screw, not a single layer of glass. the wood holds the screw, the glass keeps the wood from splitting. And could always back up a screw with a scrap block the same you'd do on a ribbed boat if the hole location didn't land neatly between ribs.

And wasn't implying the screw would be glued in with epoxy...but if you do glue in a screw, heat it with a soldering iron and it will soften the epoxy enough to back it right out.
 

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I mean glass/wood/glass holding a screw, not a single layer of glass. the wood holds the screw, the glass keeps the wood from splitting. And could always back up a screw with a scrap block the same you'd do on a ribbed boat if the hole location didn't land neatly between ribs.

And wasn't implying the screw would be glued in with epoxy...but if you do glue in a screw, heat it with a soldering iron and it will soften the epoxy enough to back it right out.
Gotcha...
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Chine logs/chine bumpers would be an interesting sidebar discussion.

Everywhere else you can sustain damage "you never know" so you may as well be prepared to be flexible and make a repair.
But EVERYBODY takes chine dings. A rubber bumper on the outside prevents the minor stuff...but doesn't do anything for a big rock strike.

A 500# boat with 1000# of stuff and 800# of people is going to hit anything hard...you might glance off the side or bottom, but your chine is going to crunch.

Thinking out loud here..I wonder if a burly ash chine log would be a good idea...similar rationale as ash for gunnels.
 

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Chine logs/chine bumpers would be an interesting sidebar discussion.

Everywhere else you can sustain damage "you never know" so you may as well be prepared to be flexible and make a repair.
But EVERYBODY takes chine dings. A rubber bumper on the outside prevents the minor stuff...but doesn't do anything for a big rock strike.

A 500# boat with 1000# of stuff and 800# of people is going to hit anything hard...you might glance off the side or bottom, but your chine is going to crunch.

Thinking out loud here..I wonder if a burly ash chine log would be a good idea...similar rationale as ash for gunnels.
Even if I were to build a stitch and glue boat, I think I would absolutely find a way to put chine logs in, Even if it meant running some ribs across the width of the boat to support them.

Edit. All of the damage I have taken with wooden boats, and my aluminum one for that matter, was in the chine area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Hardware:

Misc. hardware:
Bronze Padeyes, footman loops, and bronze snap hooks
https://wcircle.com/inc/sdetail/10404
They often have a Black Friday free shipping sale...so stock up on the padeyes for your chicken lines and snap hooks for your oars, bailing bucket, etc.
Use a #6 flathead slotted screw for the padeyes/footman loops.

Hinges - (4) ea:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Stain...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Bronze bolts:
Jamestown Distributors
Machine screws, Slotted flat head, Silicon bronze - Bolt Depot

I bought all my small brass and stainless screws on Amazon or McMaster since I couldn't source them locally


1/2 x 1.5" x 18' rubber chine strips
I got mine through Thunder Technologies $152 shipped. 248-844-4875
Or Nott Atwater in Spokane, $100 minimum order...so similar cost.
You could also go to an industrial rubber/conveyor belt supplier near you to get the same. They may even have scraps. Most conveyor belt rubber is nylon belt reinforced...I don't think that would hurt anything.

Gaskets
Rubber Seal, D-Shaped, 0. 47"W x 100 ft. | Zoro.com
Buy TrimLok gaskets in the width/depth to fill your hatch gap...D-shaped are more compressible/flexible.
 

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All of this is great info! Thank you! I’ve been fascinated by the idea to build one, just intimidated by which style to chose from for the rivers I’d be on (Ruby horsethief, Escalante, westwater, etc). Any advice or opinions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Style as in Rogue/Briggs vs Mckenzie?

The VAST majority of drift boats out there are Mckenzies...so most "drift boat conversions" from existing boats started as Mckenzies. They have a continuous rocker hull and tend to have more volume in the bow than the stern.
The very first GC dories were also Mckenzies...Moulty Fulmer's was Mckenzie-inspired, Buzz Holmstrom's was somewhat of a Mckenzie type boat. Litton's first dories (Susie Too and Portola) were Keith Steele-built Mckenzie hulls.

But starting with the Emerald Mile, the rest of Litton's boats were all of a Briggs/Rogue River heritage...more flare to the sides, more rake to the stem (bow) and a flat section in the floor amidships. The flat section in the floor meant they could haul more weight for a given floor width without drawing quite as much water as a continuous-rocker Mckenzie hull...and the greater flare/side angle means they tend to bob over waves more instead of getting slapped by them (pushes you off your line or splashes in)

Mckenzies are a bit more nimble; Rogue boats tend to track better. You could make an analogy between dropstitch and I-beam raft floors.

Most of the guide fishing boats on the MF Salmon are little Mckenzies...they run the MFS at extremely low water..but they're just a guide and 1-2 fisherfolk...and maybe a camp chair. Their camping gear is in a big gear raft or sweep.
Conversely, the guide fishing boats on the Rogue (which is itself a technical piece of whitewater) will have a guide and 2 guests...and all their camp gear.


Size/Length
And think of dory length similar to how you'd look at raft sizing. A 14' dory and a 14' raft would haul a similar number of people...3-4 max for a day trip; 1-2 for an overnight. 9-10' are solo boats, and 16-18' are the cargo hauling monster barges that can haul 1,500# of gear and 4 people.



And you're floating on a linked set of 4-6 dryboxes so gear rigging is crazy easy...and you can sleep on deck, and....

If you're not a kayaker, you've never felt this kind of ride in whitewater. And if you are a kayaker, it will feel familiar, just bigger.
I like the ride so much I bought a driftboat for day runs on I-III water and I don't even fish!

But I can't really tell you which hull shape is best for you. I have my own preference, but that would be like saying other raft shapes are wrong...and they all have their places.
 

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I'll go what mt4 said above with one caveat, having rowed both the Mackenzie and the Briggs through Grand Canyon, the Mackenzie tends to get slapped around a whole lot more than the Briggs.. I have a 14 ft that's more of a Briggs style than a Mackenzie, and there's no way in hell you'd put four people in it. The oarsman and a passenger is about all that there is physically room for in the boat
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
If you're decking a 14' boat yourself, you can rig it for 2 up front, 1 in back. Would be fine for day trips. Would be awful for multidays.
Hell, I'm not keen on hauling 4+gear in my 16'-9" boat again. I'm getting old, and lazy, and a light boat is funner.

And that brings up another point to mention:
If you're buying a hull to deck over...you're only saving yourself about 20% of the work of building a full boat (10% is building the hull, 10% is the final touches like exterior paint, bottom, gunnels, etc.). The middle 80% of the work is frames, decks, hatches, etc. So building from the ground up makes a lot of sense when you consider you're not adding much work and can get the hull you want.
 

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If you're decking a 14' boat yourself, you can rig it for 2 up front, 1 in back. Would be fine for day trips. Would be awful for multidays.
Hell, I'm not keen on hauling 4+gear in my 16'-9" boat again. I'm getting old, and lazy, and a light boat is funner.

And that brings up another point to mention:
If you're buying a hull to deck over...you're only saving yourself about 20% of the work of building a full boat (10% is building the hull, 10% is the final touches like exterior paint, bottom, gunnels, etc.). The middle 80% of the work is frames, decks, hatches, etc. So building from the ground up makes a lot of sense when you consider you're not adding much work and can get the hull you want.
Were I to stick that many people in Ashkii, I believe the water line would be to the gunnels
 

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I've had 2 adults and 5 kids and a dog in Teakettle (14'-8") and had plenty of volume to spare.
And I would bet, being undecked and aluminum it probably weighs considerably less
 

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I haven't weighed her, but I bet it would take four strong men. My overhead crane knows it's lifting something... Not as heavy as bears ears, but it is solid wood and fully decked. It hauls two people, and their gear for overnight, two good sized people 230 lb a piece, and is drafting about 8 in, so I'd say probably in the neighborhood of 800 lb of weight. I don't think I'd want to put much more in her
 
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