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Discussion Starter #1
upper salt
yellowstone
upper chattooga (may thru november)
niagara gorge

what else is off limits?
 

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Cranberry creek in Texas. Interesting from a legal stand point because it is technically legal to run, but the Putin is guarded by an ahole with an ak-47. And he's backed by the hillbilly Sherriff. A few people have gotten tresspassing tickets from him and the DA just sits on them and leaves it in limbo. Ask Texas ken. He's got more info.

I'm working on the upper chatt for ya.
Joe
 

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In Seattle Area

Puyallup Gorge

NF Tolt and SF Tolt River

These aren't illegal, but you can't access them without expensive permits from the logging companies that manage the properties. Some of us are considering dropping the cash for the Snoq Forest annual permit which will give us easy access to Ernie's Canyon and drive-in access to the Tolts.
 

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Lots of goods. Yellowstone specifically is awsome. Anything on the wind river indian reservation. Also really good. Pretty much majority of wyoming due to land ownership. If they own both sides they own the river bed so you can only be on the water and not touching.. So far nobody is pulling the Colorado land owner stuff. But we tend to keep each other in line. From the 5 person rule on nflw to being respectful. Even if it means coming across as an asshole to other kayakers. Many runs can be taken away super fast. we could be recieveing a trespassing ticket or bullet through our kayak... And no church.. No river in my eyes is illegal. I don't have the moral obligation to upstand boundaries I don't believe in.. It our river our land. I see no boundaries, as does Mother Earth.
 

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Below Section IV of the Wolf in Wisconsin is on a Res and off limits to the general population. Section IV, also on the Res, is by permit only during sumer and off limits in winter (or there abouts).
 

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North Fork of the Poudre.
The upper run has a land owner that you need to sneak past.
Phantom Canyon has a large dam that you need to portage to get into the private (Nature Conservancy) canyon.
The Little Thompson has a land owner association at the pot holes that is not kayak friendly.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i wasn't thinking so much about private property complications... those situations can be dealt with, or depending on one's willingness to test the law, ignored.

what rivers are forbidden? either institutionally like yellowstone, or because the river is sacred, in the same sense that mount kailash cannot be climbed.

tribal lands come to mind, for example, cibecue creek in AZ.
 

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Johns Creek in New Castle, VA. Great class IV run. Off limits due to VA law still applying Kings Grant rules.
 

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For most of the year Ohiopyle Falls in Ohiopyle, PA is a beautiful 18foot waterfall that is illegal to run due to State Park Regulations. Things have improved in the past 2-3 years with a 2-month trial period each year thanks to a 10-year effort by American Whitewater to prove it should be legal.

Pay your AW dues and some of the runs listed in this thread could some day be runnable.
 

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McDonald Creek in glacier NP looks sweet. There is a ban on paddling for most the year b/c of Harlequin Duck's whoopie season. Heard stories of a couple crews routing down there. I would be fun but f*@k a duck
 

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@ JCKECK1, I think you're meaning Crabapple Creek in the Texas Hill Country near Enchanted Rock. Texas' only Class IV run that is longer than 1 mile. It's more than just landowner issues because the entire local government considers it illegal though the State has remained silent on the issue. We're working on it, and actually hope to open that run up in the near future. You might have to come back for a visit when we do. Granite bedrock creeking in Texas is not a common occurrence. And yes, I'm sure Ken could tell you all about it. I think he's got one of the only runs that didn't end in arrest (if memory serves me right). I bet all that easy access up there has dulled his Creek Ninja skills.
In my experience lots of rivers that are "off-limits" are often due to landowners as well as local law enforcement, often despite the law. Making them martially forbidden but like Tango said where there is a will there is a way. But in some parts of the country land owner complications and "sacred lands" are one in the same. Private property is sacred property, institutionally recognized or not.
 

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Access to the encampment (i assume you're talking about the north shore of lake superior)is held in trust by all the land owners up there. They do not want anyone on the land. It may be possible to get around by putting on further upstream, but some of the scouts/portages are on private land anyways. At one time access was granted on a one off basis but people f*cked it up. Who knows, friendly conversation goes a long way, maybe it'd be possible to get access if people stopped poaching it and getting run off by pissed landowners..and its not just kayakers. A lot of people try hiking up there because its nice old growth forest and there's not much of that left in mn. Someday I may have to try approaching the owners, I'm local and have well known family in the area.
 

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Ahhh. Didn't realize it had deteriorated so fast. Bummer. Mad beautiful in them parts.
 

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McDonald Creek in glacier NP looks sweet. There is a ban on paddling for most the year b/c of Harlequin Duck's whoopie season. Heard stories of a couple crews routing down there. I would be fun but f*@k a duck
Spoonberg, is that you?
Call me if you end up in the Flathead County clink.




Oops...that would probably be a federal crime. :lol:
 

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Turner Falls

77 ft Turner Falls on Honey Creek in Turner Falls, OK. I heard some hippie dropped it into a pile sheriff deputies 2008ish, I hope that was true. Weird OK has the same WV, and MT high water mark law.


 
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