Four more days

Regulations allow a nonmotorized trip 4 more days than a motorized trip. Why not take your time and enjoy the experience?


Summer Launch (May – August) Maximum Trip Length in Days

Noncommercial Motor 12

Noncommercial Oar 16​

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Don't! The magic of being on a river in a canyon like the Grand is completely lost and drowned out by the whine of a motor. The splash of the water. The canyon walls slowly drifting by. If you can schedule in more hikes, that's a fantastic bonus, but if you make the hikes and stops the destination you put every day on a schedule and totally lose the essence of what it is to be on the river. I think we all make the effort to get to a place like the Grand in order to experience life at nature's pace and sounds. There are animals there you won't see if they hear a motor.
On a personal note... I've cringed whenever I've heard a motor rig coming around a corner. You can hear them a mile away.

 

we are considering using motors for the flat sections of the river

Wuss!!

Think too if your motor fails, you have four less days to row it .... Think how much hiking you'll miss then ....

 

We motored a Cataract trip a few years back. Believe we had 8 rigs and two motors. We had a 9hp we pushed 3 boats with, and a 25hp we pushed 5 boats with. worked just fine, alot of strapping, but worked fine. Wish I could tell you how many miles or mph we did with the motors, but the trip is a little fuzzy. We would float most of the day, then kick in the motors in the afternoon for an hour or two to make the miles. Both motors handled their load just fine. Probably couldn't get much more out of the 9hp though.
Hope that helps.

 

Hi,

I've rowed to Diamond in 12 days, and I've motored to Diamond in 12 days. On any given day, I'd rather be rowing.

What you've described probably would not be considered a "hybrid" trip by the Park, so you'd be limited to 12 days to Diamond. I'd say row, take the full 16 days, get on the river early, and do more stuff on shore after you got your miles in. But it sort of depends on what you want out of a trip.

When I'vc run one motor and multiple rafts, I've done what most folks do -- lash frame to frame for rigidity and improved control. BTW, there's plenty of current beyond Diamond, so you really don't need a motor for that part if you're taking out at Pearce.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

 

I don't think it's worth it. In Cat, the motor barge works well because you have 50 miles of (really really) flat, then 15 miles of rapids, followed by 30 miles of lake, so you only rig the motor barge twice. In the Grand, the rapids are pretty evenly distributed throughout (e.g. every 3-10 miles) so you would be repeatedly rigging up your motor barge and then breaking it apart to row drops. There are a lot of little name rapids that don't get mentioned often, but they are big enough that I wouldn't want to go through with a rag-tag motor barge held together by 1 inch straps. Combine that with the loss of 4 days, the more onerous regulations associated with motors, and trip aesthetics, and I think you'd lose a lot more than you'd gain.

Row it and enjoy your trip! You'll be too amazed with the hikes that you do make to notice the ones that you missed. And for the ones you miss, theres always next time!

 

Motor the Grand

Hi Psyched. Congrats on your draw. Your trip sounds similar to mine...
launched Aug 3,07. You will need to bring an extra motor.
We had 2 18ft SBs, 1 14ft SBer, and our motor rig was a 16ft cataraft.
Our tow method was the "Barged-Up" style. An 18ft on either side of the catraft, 14ft in front of the catraft, being pushed. Plan on separating early enough for your oarsmen(oarpersons) to deploy oars and set up. I am sure you can get plenty of rivermiles each day which will allow for some good quality hikes, and possibly a lay-over below Phantom.

Several safety issues: make sure you use a consistent method of securing
the rafts to the motored boat and make sure all POBs know how to derig
(untie) these straps or lines. While barged up and you decide to run a riffle or small rated rapid, don't allow POBs to release or tighten straps while running the rapid. Chances are someone will get there fingers or a hand badly injured. And always know your position from the rivier guide.

Hope this helps.

 

What does a canyon wren sound like from a motor boat?



Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

 

How can you tell if the person you're talking to is a river guide? They'll tell you. (I guess it's in the screen name this time....)

 

Wow! That website says a Grand Canyon river trip can be had for 200 bucks (includes food)!

 

Four less days. Rig and derig "barge" 10+? times.
Sounds like you will have a lot less time for hikes.

Best way to add hiking time is to use all those hours
and hours of people just sitting around camp!
Another way to add hiking time is to hand out lunch with breakfast
and everyone can eat when THEY are hungry and you don't waste
an hour every day finding a good lunch beach, setting up, eating way too much and taking down and cleaning up.

I really enjoy the long lazy floats between the rapids.
Best time to enjoy the view, the solitude and the QUIET.

YMMV

 

The more I think about the hassles of motoring and the beauty forfeited the better rowing sounds. We'll take that into serious consideration.

Thanks for all those who shared experiences both ways. Motored or rowed, it wil be amazing!

 

Psyched,

Any other suggestions are welcome!

You left yourself open for everyone's opinion with that one.

If you decide on motors don't tow. Towed boats have a mind of their own and will slow you down. Lash a boat to each side, or push. I have a friend who has done several of these trips and is doing another one this summer. They take three rafts and three cats with the motors on the cats. When they want to motor they nest/dock a raft in front of a cat and go. After the first day they got it down to where they could dock or undock in about 2 minutes.

Now my suggestion (pronounced opinion). I have been a commercial guide in the Canyon for a long time and done both motor and oar. I prefer oars. As has been stated earlier in this thread, your trip will have to be 4 days shorter if you take the motors. So with or without the motors, you will be able to get in about the same amount of hiking, maybe more with the oars only. And you will have the quiet of the canyon all the time. There are other ways of making time on the river. Sack lunches has been mentioned, have quick and easy no cook breakfasts once in a while so you are on the water sooner, etc.

To all you motor haters out there: be nice, motors are people too.

 

There are other ways of making time on the river. Sack lunches has been mentioned, have quick and easy no cook breakfasts once in a while so you are on the water sooner, etc.

To all you motor haters out there: be nice, motors are people too.

I agree. I would also second the earlier suggestion to get on the water earlier, and to stay on the water later. Get on the river by 8 a.m. or so. Yeah, you have to get up early, but it's light by 5 a.m. anyways. And it's hot as hell the second the sun hits you in the morning. Rigging in the sun is probably my least favorite experience in the Canyon. The same goes on the other end. Wait to roll into camp until 4-5 p.m. The chances of it being shady are way higher. You can always find a nice side canyon to shade up in for a chunk of the day. It's amazing how many trips you'll see pulled into camp around 1 or 2 p.m. No one is doing anything because it's so hot. Or you can do more miles on those days to allow for shorter mileage days for hiking.

The other time saver I always suggest is to spend as little time below Lava as possible. From the Tuckup-Fern Glen reach it is easy to run Lava around lunch and then proceed to somewhere between 192 and Parashant camps. Then from there to 220 for your last night. Yeah, they're really long days, but it gives you an extra day above the land of hateful heat. There are cool things to do out there, but it's hot and shade is hard to come by. We usually just push on through that stretch. Breaking that up by camping at Tequila beach, right below Lava, is always reasonable also. That gives you hiking time in Tuckup or National canyons.

Anyways, maybe a bit long on the description, but those are my two suggestions for saving time!