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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering about how many groovers would be necessary for a group of 8 on the Grand.
It would also be nice if someone had a general formula for determining the number needed for any trip.
 

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I was wondering about how many groovers would be necessary for a group of 8 on the Grand.
It would also be nice if someone had a general formula for determining the number needed for any trip.
On my trip in August we had 3 eco-safe style tanks and used all three. We had 8 people down to Phantom and 6 of us down to Pearce after that. The first one was pretty full but still had soem capacity left. I think we had more room left in the second one when we switched to the third. They were probably 2/3 full, though I'll say I didn't get a good look at them since someone else packed up the groover most mornings. For small group, 3 seems plenty. I have a feeling if pressed you could maybe get away with two but I don't think it would be a pleasant experience.
 

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I was wondering about how many groovers would be necessary for a group of 8 on the Grand.
It would also be nice if someone had a general formula for determining the number needed for any trip.

From GCNP: "The number of containers needed is dependent on the number of people and the length of the trip. It is easy to contain about 50 uses in a container measuring 2,000 cubic inches."

I also believe that most common systems have a "user day" rating. I have found that a 20 mm ammo can or eco safe style is good for about 20 user days, but pushing the limit can be a nasty experience.

Either way, your question cannot be answered without knowing the number of days your trip is and the type of groovers that you are using.
 

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The calculations are actually quite complicated

# passengeras X (# days X daily fiber intake)/daily dairy intake

Also you must factor in someone who discovers that they are lactose intolerant while on the trip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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6 of us on a 22 day trip filled 3, but we were full of shit. I have three eco tanks and some free time to help you fill them.
 

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I have found groover manufacturers( at least Eco Safe) to be a little full of shit when it comes to how many user days they claim there tank will hold.
I think 40 or 50 user days is claimed by my Eco safe, I find it is much less(30?) Also, how much T.P. gets used, and if anyone pee's in it, are factors, along with the diet on the trip, lot's of good meals require more space!

If you're not familiar with the term " user day" it is how much poop, one adult poops, in 1 day.
 

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I think 40 or 50 user days is claimed by my Eco safe, I find it is much less(30?) Also, how much T.P. gets used, and if anyone pee's in it, are factors, along with the diet on the trip, lot's of good meals require more space!

If you're not familiar with the term " user day" it is how much poop, one adult poops, in 1 day.
We got 47. 22 days x 6 =132 / 3 = 47. If you only get 30, oh oh you know what that means. It means you are using charmin instead of the cheap stuff right?;-)
 

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I think you can fit a lot more in those tanks then people give them credit for. A bit of respreading and packing down every couple of uses goes a long way. Still, it can get pretty interesting for the last 10% of use.

I heard a campfire warstory from a dude that said he went on a trip on which whoever brought the groovers vastly underestimated how much groover volume was needed. He said they brought two eco-safe containers and they were both full to the very top side to side back to front. They packed it down heavy with a stick each day and it was still full. It evidently even got to the point where it was clear there was no more room, so they dug a 4 foot deep hole and "Donated" a large chunk of one of the tanks to mother nature well above the high water line. When they got back to civilization and had to clean them out, it was a 45 minute job for each tank of scraping, digging and spraying to get it all out. Not a fun time.

Moral of the story is err on the side of having too much groover space then too little. Much better to fill four of them 3/4's then to have three full to the brim.
 

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50 River runner days per 20 mil box is the official number. I just got back from GC and have handled groovage on several trips. 1)no whizzing in the groovers. 2) no covering your deposit with half a roll of TP. 3) a small quantity of dry bleach and a good misting of odo ban morning and evening.
Following these rules I have never filled 4 rockets on a 21 day trip with 16 people. I pack tp in zip locks in empty groovers. 2 rolls per day. 1.25 rolls per day is the most I've ever used... but rolls vary widely... hope this helps your groovy angst.

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My advice on this groover count thread is on any long trip with Eco Safe or home made groover type poopers, take one more spare than what ever rule of thumb you use to guess your need.

Just as important is proper groover management.

Early in my multi day river tripping education, since I had purchased a brand new two container Eco Safe system, I got to provide groovers on a early April Salt Trip. It was a small boater head count float and we only needed one container. We basically filled that container up.

Take out day was hectic and it was blue sky hot sun. The Globe AZ clean out spot we had used before had stopped taking groovers for clean out. Not a problem, I knew of a RV park back in Tulsa OK that let you for 5 dollars per container do clean outs. The drive back to Tulsa was the usual mad dash across the hot desert. At my house it toss stuff out of the trailer and get the guys on the road for KS and MO back home. Bottom line, my filled groover tank was stashed in the corner of my camper shell.

Mid April in Oklahoma can really hot and this was a very hot year.

Some weeks later, I noticed the groover in my camper shell and next weekend went to the RV park clean out. Opened up the top and found a solid rock hard mass of poop and toilet paper. I thought about tossing the eco safe container in the RV Park trash can. Money was a bit tight in those days so I determined to save that Eco Safe container. Fortunate for me the poop mass did not stink that bad. I found a hammer, rubber gloves and a big screw driver in the tool box and spent time chipping away at the rock hard mass until I had most of the poop mass broken up and out of the container into the RV dump. A trip to a nearby car pressure wash wand cleaned out the container to like new condition.

Since then, if I have groover duty I make sure we have plenty of containers so I do not have to pack the containers totally full of poop. Then on the last morning of the trip I carefully open the containers and add a good amount of dish washing detergent and some river water. Done right (each of you has to determine the ratios that work for you) the ride out on the river and vehicle will shake up the mixture to the point what ever clean out system you use will easily flush out the mess. Be aware of groover poop gas build up and if needed burp the containers on the drive to the clean out point.

And, it is your responsibility to schedule the actual clean out location and time.
 

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Take an extra ecosafe container. Then you will have room if the others fill up too soon. Personally, I like to keep enough water in the groovers to let the poop stuff do its job. It makes cleaning sooooo much easier. That alone is worth the effort taking another container. Cleaning a groover stuffed to the gills as a poop paste is no fun. Even with a scat machine.
 

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I LOVE these shitty threads! I like the firm texture of dry stools.... limits fermentation on the boat as well and since I haul the things.... odor matters. I also like to fill them to the top... i have one of artisan metalworks risers to keep my dangly bits from dragging... the one thing that everybody has said that I TOTALLY agree with is extra space is good. There's too many folks using the resource to bury waste on the beach or anywhere near it. That's one thing I like about using rockets for poop.... there's always another one somewhere on some bodies boat that could... in a pinch be repurposed....

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groovers

Just got off a 21 day Gr. Canyon Used 6 Rocket boxes for 16 people. Filled the first 3 quite full, then 3/4 full for the last 3 after we determined we had plenty of room
Bringing 3 for 8 people should be fine. Amount of pee and TP are factors...we had a pee bucket or placed groover near river.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So, the impression I'm getting here is that I should bring one groover, pack it really full and then ask everyone to hold it the second half of the trip or just not let anyone eat. Is this correct?
 
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