How hard is low-water MFS on gear?

4647 Views 25 Replies 16 Participants Last post by NativeDiver, 3 mo ago

TKumec

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2022

I have an August 3 trip this year on the MF Salmon. I know that this river gets posted about every day right now, but I haven't yet seen this question: How much abuse does a low-water trip deal to your raft? I have an old Riken; in some ways it is bomber (thick and heavy on the bottom), but the seams are starting to delam, fabric is worn in places. I'm happy to continue to beat it up, because at this point its days are numbered just by nature of failing adhesive.

I don't want to rent, but also don't want to blow my raft up in the middle of this epic wilderness. Any thoughts from others who take old rafts down bony rivers?

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IDriverRunner

· #2 · Feb 23, 2022

It all depends. It depends on flow. It depends on your river reading ability to see where you should be. It depends on your ability to put yourself where you should be. It can be done with minimal wear on your gear, or you could tear the bottom of your boat off. I went last year at 1.7' and no gear issues. My dad, on the same trip came home to notice a foot long rip on the bottom of one of his cat tubes (Aire).
We also have an old 30+ year old Odyssey that has been down the MF at all sorts of flows, high water and low water, and it is still holding up strong.
Be smart, and gentle, with your boat and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Also, try to have someone in your group that has been down in low water before. It'll help. (/shameless plug for an invite)

Reactions: 5

Nanko

· #3 · Feb 23, 2022

Make sure your boxes aren’t too low. I’d think the highest potential for damage would be pinching the partially deflated floor between rocks and the box.

Reactions: 5

TKumec

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 23, 2022

IDriverRunner said:
It all depends. It depends on flow. It depends on your river reading ability to see where you should be. It depends on your ability to put yourself where you should be. It can be done with minimal wear on your gear, or you could tear the bottom of your boat off. I went last year at 1.7' and no gear issues. My dad, on the same trip came home to notice a foot long rip on the bottom of one of his cat tubes (Aire).
We also have an old 30+ year old Odyssey that has been down the MF at all sorts of flows, high water and low water, and it is still holding up strong.
Be smart, and gentle, with your boat and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Also, try to have someone in your group that has been down in low water before. It'll help. (/shameless plug for an invite)

Ha! Thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to keep that in mind. If you have any control over snowpack and wildfires, you can definitely come on all of my trips!

Reactions: 2

IDriverRunner

· #5 · Feb 23, 2022

TKumec said:
Ha! Thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to keep that in mind. If you have any control over snowpack and wildfires, you can definitely come on all of my trips!

Sweet.

My control over the snowpack: I have a May 27th MF permit. That means the snowpack will look great for my launch date right up until it doesn't. I'm expecting a series of the following events to happen: the snowpack will drastically change between now and then and the river will be over 10', the roads will all be closed (Boundary, Highway 21, etc), if we have to do Marsh it will have multiple river/creek-wide log jams, a random wildfire in May will close the river again, etc.

Bottom line. Thanks for the invite and I'll see you in August! haha Seriously though, you're going at a great time of year and going to have a hell of a good time!

Reactions: 2

cnalder

· #6 · Feb 23, 2022 (Edited)

Aug 3rd launch is looking pretty low unless something really changes with our snowpack. I launched on 8/5 last year at 1.49 in packrafts and had one of the best river trips. Leaving big boats and gear at home was awesome and reduced so much work and stress.

To add to the above, what and how many people you are gonna carry will matter. Also what size of boat. The smaller and heavier the more you’re gonna test your rubber. On last years trip we launched after a group with big boats. They did repairs to multiple boats both nights they stayed above Indian Cr. They’re days were super long also, 2nd night they had to have ran pistol right at dark because they past us (we were at dolly) right around dark. First day I think they had to do a midday repair as we paddled by and they couldn’t keep air in two of their chambers of one boat.

As a few said bringsomeone with low water exp and have them help in planning. Or fly in to Indian. At 1.51 last year, I would have taken my 156r, but at most 1 passenger and flown cooler, drybox, 1 Cessna 206 worth of gear to Indian. I would have also been prepared to make significant repairs.

look at Zach’s low water videos on YouTube. You’ll know what to expect.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Conundrum

· #7 · Feb 23, 2022

Plenty of opinions on the topic. I took my 15' with a passenger, boxes and cooler from the top last year at 1.6. Lowest I've done. It was work but no gear damage. Had one guy have to patch at pistol camp. If you're going off the top, short mile days and a good attitude above Indian. Make up mileage down low. We've been fairly fortunate on the low water trips I've done. Have seen some groups have really bad days too.

FatmanZ

· #8 · Feb 23, 2022

A $500 rental +/- for a newer raft setup can offer some serious piece of mind on a wilderness trip. New gear can be damaged just like old gear, but the risks of general gear failure are minimized with that rental.

As for a low water Middle Fork trip from the top - it can be an absolutely amazing experience - but it's not for everyone. For me, in my experience having done it a few different ways, it means going back to the basics: packing as light as possible, and then pack it again even lighter, leave the drinks home, leave the heavy chairs and other nice to have but not critical creature comforts home, leave the steaks at home and pack lighter food, etc. Long days on the river, roll into camp late and exhausted with a smile on your face. Eat and then sleep better than one does most nights of the year, pack up for an early morning launch and another full day on the river - wash, rinse, repeat.

Reactions: 4

AgainstBetterJudgement

· #9 · Feb 23, 2022

There was a nasty rock in Pistol last summer. Rumor was that it got a couple boats but other than that, the rocks seemed round and slippery.

TKumec

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 23, 2022

FatmanZ said:
A $500 rental +/- for a newer raft setup can offer some serious piece of mind on a wilderness trip. New gear can be damaged just like old gear, but the risks of general gear failure are minimized with that rental.

As for a low water Middle Fork trip from the top - it can be an absolutely amazing experience - but it's not for everyone. For me, in my experience having done it a few different ways, it means going back to the basics: packing as light as possible, and then pack it again even lighter, leave the drinks home, leave the heavy chairs and other nice to have but not critical creature comforts home, leave the steaks at home and pack lighter food, etc. Long days on the river, roll into camp late and exhausted with a smile on your face. Eat and then sleep better than one does most nights of the year, pack up for an early morning launch and another full day on the river - wash, rinse, repeat.

Thanks for the insights. As a former Rogue guide, and having done several fully loaded winter Canyon trips, I know what a "decadent" trip looks like. As much as I love those trips, I'm looking forward to the refreshing nature of a lightweight trip, not drinking too much, not eating 5,000 calories a day in pre-made cakes, not having to set up a literal restaurant every camp, etc... We're planning on rafts over packrafts, but still will be packing light!

Reactions: 5

upacreek

· #11 · Feb 24, 2022 (Edited)

This cool low-water MFS video popped up here not long ago by the OP; watch the whole thing and if still think its a good idea to take a tired boat on a trip like this....you're braver man than most I reckon

cnalder

· #12 · Feb 24, 2022

upacreek said:
This cool low-water MFS video popped up here not long ago by the OP; watch the whole thing and if still think its a good idea to take a tired boat on this a trip like this....you're braver man than most I reckon

Video is from Indian down. That’s the easy part of the MFS in low water.

Reactions: 3

Nanko

· #13 · Feb 24, 2022

TKumec said:
Thanks for the insights. As a former Rogue guide, and having done several fully loaded winter Canyon trips, I know what a "decadent" trip looks like. As much as I love those trips, I'm looking forward to the refreshing nature of a lightweight trip, not drinking too much, not eating 5,000 calories a day in pre-made cakes, not having to set up a literal restaurant every camp, etc... We're planning on rafts over packrafts, but still will be packing light!

Ah c’mon don’t sell yourself short. Whisky, pringles and pepperoni sticks can get you up to 5k calories a day easy! Throw in some Oreos and boxed wine to be on the safe side. You got this

Reactions: 5

Rightoarleft

· #14 · Feb 24, 2022

I've done late August Boundary down twice. We had significant floor damage each trip. We were running bucket rafts so floor damage wasn't that big of a deal, but it's to be expected. I have learned hypalon puts you at a distinct disadvantage. It's grippy on the rocks. PVC is better. Urethane is best. A soft PVC or urethane boat slides over rocks like a jellyfish. I don't recommend low water MFS in a hypalon bottom boat but if I had to, I'd do it in an old Udisco or Riken. They are just tough boats.

Pack light. Run soft. Spin to win. It's a game of patience and finesse.

Reactions: 3

kanoer2

· #15 · Feb 24, 2022

Have done 2 different August low water (1.6ft) trips launching at Boundary Creek. Pack very light, under-inflated floor helped. In 2007 it took 7 hours to go 6.9 miles! Think that was the year after Clear Creek blew out, it was nasty at low flow and we lined boats down the top part. Oh, place went up in flames by the time we hit Camus Creek, and river was closed down, I think day we took off. But it was a great trip.

twoguns

· #16 · Feb 26, 2022

Good old Riken rubber is tried and true on the MF and the rocks don't care how much you spent on a boat or what color it is right. A lot of places wont rent at those levels. And if they do and you wreck the boat, you buy it. Your boat will be fine but if you can't row a boat any better than in the video, it doesn't matter what boat your in.

Reactions: 3

Wallrat

· #17 · Feb 26, 2022

What? Not one single Buzzard stepped up and told the OP that a low water trip is suicidal and that they should cancel the permit immediately? We’re taking this “new civility” thing too far!

Reactions: 2

IDriverRunner

· #18 · Feb 26, 2022

Wallrat said:
What? Not one single Buzzard stepped up and told the OP that a low water trip is suicidal and that they should cancel the permit immediately? We’re taking this “new civility” thing too far!

I stepped up and low-key tried to invite myself on their trip. Twice.

It didn't seem to stick though. haha

Reactions: 1

Wallrat

· #19 · Feb 26, 2022 (Edited)

IDriverRunner said:
I stepped up and low-key tried to invite myself on their trip. Twice.

It didn't seem to stick though. haha

You should have asked for more money! I tried to mooch a Selway trip (for their safety, I promise!), but no joy.

Reactions: 1

SomeYeahoo

· #20 · 10 mo ago

We did it the first week of October a couple of years ago. Didn't put much wear at all on my.....IK. The guys running the 14 footer got stuck a few times but no serious damage. We did fly in though.

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