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Discussion Starter #1
I'm a beginnner boater and have narrowed my boat choices down to the WS Diesel and the Pyranha H:3.
I want an 'all around' boat thats surfy and will still hold enough gear to take overnighters+. I'm 6'2", 220lbs w/ sz 14 feet (so footroom is a major issue that the two boats address well). I've sat in both boats as well.
FWIW I've ruled out the LL Hoss.

What to y'all think?

Thanks~ Gary
Grand Junction, CO
 

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Hey Gary,

I have a WS Diesel 75 and love it. It's fast, tracks well, and has plenty of room for us tall guys. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I want to be able to take self supported trips and the Hoss does not seem to have the room for gear that I would like. Also, the upper weight limit on it is 230lbs. I weigh 220 and that would mean w/ 30/40lbs of gear would put the Hoss well over it optimal limit.
If I had no desire to do long trips I would be all over the Hoss.
 

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As a beginner you would save a boat load of money by purchasing a used
H2 about the only real difference you will find is the back band.
 

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i've had my 75 diesel now for a few weeks and do love it. I'm 6 foot, 185, and have been boating for 4 seasons. 3+ trying to transition to 4, and the diesel is making it easier. Large enough to punch holes, yet suprisingly nimble in technical water. Good hull speed, and the secondary stability is bomber. You can brace out of just about any position. Surfs well, although it does take a somehwhat larger feature. Oh, and it's a roll-o-matic when needed. H:3 i've been in a couple of times, but I personally didn't like the geometry. Haven't had the boat in any real creeky situations, but I could see that you'd sacrifice some mobility as compared to say the prijon creeker. I think it would handle just as well or better than an H:3 though.
 

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As a beginner you would save a boat load of money by purchasing a used
H2 about the only real difference you will find is the back band.
I am a beginner, haven't even started ww, yet. (My wife and I have been flatwater - Wilderness tsunami 140 - for about one year, now.)

Now, we both want to also do some ww.
I had narrowed down my list to:

LL Lil Joe. Hoss
Pyranha Burn C30 S/M
WS Diesel 65/75
? Dagger Mamba 7.8/8.1

favoring LL or Diesel, esp. Diesel if I can find it used.


Ruled out the dagger GT too many reviewers didn't like it for featyres we were looking for.

Who makes H2? How is it similar to the Diesel?
Is the backband better in the H2 or will need to be replaced?
 

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I would upscale to the Burn. I think its a better boat the the h2/h3, but thats just my opinion. I think you will be pushing the effective weight limit of the Diesel.
 

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I would upscale to the Burn. I think its a better boat the the h2/h3, but thats just my opinion. I think you will be pushing the effective weight limit of the Diesel.
I never mentioned my weight? So how could I be pushing the limit?
I am 5' 9", and weigh 185 lbs, size 9-1/2 or 10 shoe (depending on cut).

I do not think that I'd be pushing the limit of the 75, maybe the 65?
 

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I believe the original question was by Scary Mc. I was responding to his post.
 

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Jay, if you are a true beginner, I would recomend taking lessons. That way you can try their equipment and ww before dropping a load of cash. That way you get to start on a good learning curve (one going the right way) some people take a while to get used to being upside down under water and learning the roll. But maybe you already can roll?
 

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Jay, if you are a true beginner, I would recomend taking lessons. That way you can try their equipment and ww before dropping a load of cash. That way you get to start on a good learning curve (one going the right way) some people take a while to get used to being upside down under water and learning the roll. But maybe you already can roll?
My wife and I both plan to take lessons.
Our local New Hampshire AMC paddlers club - just finished theri 3-day ww school.
However, there are others in the area.

Until then, we are sticking with their Touring trips, and doing quiet water (lakes and ponds) ourselves - with our Wilderness tsunami 140's.

We, also plan to try and demo/rent - and then purchase used.
However most all of the shops in our area are Light Touring boats for rentals.
 

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My 2cents: The H3 isn't the easiest boat to paddle; it requires a lot of attention to keep online. With that said, I love my H3. Carrys speed well, boofs like a champ and will surf.
 

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Dan, I agree with that. In the right hands its a precision instrument. I have just never thought of it as a beginners boat. I liked the burn cause they dumbed down the edges a bit for normal folk like me.
 

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To the OP

For what you want a boat to do I would tell you to get the Mamba 8.5
At your weight and the gear you want to carry it is the choice.
The big H3 and D-75 would still be alittle over weighted.

As far as the Hoss goes if your looking for a riverrunner that surfs and spins in the play hole this is the choice.
I own one and tip the scale at 240 and was able to spin in it before I could spin my Kingpin.

Don't get me wrong all the boat listed are great choices but figure if you want stability take it from a twinkie lover you don't want to push the weight limit but if you want play push it push it real good.

As far as the reviews on the GT goes it is a super river runner aiming to surf but alittle big for anyplay and you gouldnt go wrong with one.

I have paddled all the boats listed in these post so far and no matter what boat you get in YOU will learn how to paddle it.

If you are thinking I want to learn to surf and Play alilttle get a river play boat and take those swim to learn that boat.
 

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I have a Diesel 65 (right for my weight) and I think it's a great boat for river running. But it's not the best choice for surfing - it has a rather flat nose, and it's *really* hard to pull the boat back when you catch the nose - once it pearls you're off the wave.

I also looked at the H3. If you already have a 'normal keyhole' skirt, be aware that the H3 takes a larger skirt. The H3 is also heavier, which was a factor for me. Can't speak to the H3's on-water capabilities. If you're a beginner, I'd recommend demoing something with more traditional, rounded edges.
 

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To the OP

For what you want a boat to do I would tell you to get the Mamba 8.5
At your weight and the gear you want to carry it is the choice.
The big H3 and D-75 would still be alittle over weighted.

As far as the Hoss goes if your looking for a riverrunner that surfs and spins in the play hole this is the choice.
I own one and tip the scale at 240 and was able to spin in it before I could spin my Kingpin.

Don't get me wrong all the boat listed are great choices but figure if you want stability take it from a twinkie lover you don't want to push the weight limit but if you want play push it push it real good.

As far as the reviews on the GT goes it is a super river runner aiming to surf but alittle big for anyplay and you gouldnt go wrong with one.

I have paddled all the boats listed in these post so far and no matter what boat you get in YOU will learn how to paddle it.

If you are thinking I want to learn to surf and Play alilttle get a river play boat and take those swim to learn that boat.
Hi Swim Team Capt.;

My fault, I replied to the thread by Scary MC (Gary) with a Q of my own.
Thereby confusing the thread. Sorry!

I am 5' 9", and weigh in at 185 lbs. with a 31" inseam.
My wife is 5' 7", and 155 lbs.

And I had narrowed our choices down to:

LL Lil Joe / Hoss
Pyranha Burn C30 S/M
WS Diesel 65/75
? Dagger Mamba 7.8/8.1

I am favoring the LL or Diesel, esp. Diesel if I can find it used.
The Mamba is listed more as a Creeker, but ... how forgiving is it for beginners in river running?

And I wrote earlier that a lot of reviews I had read really did not favor the GT.

So, sorry for the confusion, and I know your response is apprapo to Scary MC, but not to me.

I would still like to consider your opinion, now that you know my stats.
Thanks!
 

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The mamba is definitely something you should demo. It fits within the things you are looking for.
 

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I am 5' 9", and weigh in at 185 lbs. with a 31" inseam.
My wife is 5' 7", and 155 lbs.

And I had narrowed our choices down to:

LL Lil Joe / Hoss
Pyranha Burn C30 S/M
WS Diesel 65/75
? Dagger Mamba 7.8/8.1

I am favoring the LL or Diesel, esp. Diesel if I can find it used.
The Mamba is listed more as a Creeker, but ... how forgiving is it for beginners in river running?

And I wrote earlier that a lot of reviews I had read really did not favor the GT.
Its interesting that you've gotten that impression (that the Mamba is more of a creeker than the Diesel). Its definitely not so; and I've actually thought of it oppositely. The diesel has more volume for its length=more creekable; and the Mamba is advertised as a "pure riverrunner". But at your level (or any level), it wont make a lick of difference. They are both good river runners. The Hoss is similar to the Mamba (actually seems like somewhere between the GT and the Mamba). The Hoss, the Diesel 75, or the Mamba 8.0 would all be good choices for you and any differences you've read about will NOT affect you. Apparently, the Burn is a full-on creeker + full-on riverrunner so you wouldn't go wrong there either. The Lil Joe, Diesel 65, Mamba 7.5, or Sm Burn would be great for your wife. You may have read a few bad reviews of the GT (or other good boats) but a lot of people who don't have a reason to write reviews really liked the boat and it would honestly work great for you as a beginner if you find it used for less than other boats your looking at. Its pretty similar to the Hoss/Lil' Joe when you put them side by side. Find the boat thats comfortable, and then you'll get used to it and be happy with it, because you'll have nothing to compare against, and kayaking in any of those boats will be fun!
 
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