Mountain Buzz banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have good numbers?

About how many user days is a Selway Riverbank Toilet good for on a multi-day trip?
How about an Eco-safe Rocket-box style system?

Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
909 Posts
A johnny partner unit is 60+ user days, i threw my eco safe in the trash after the first trip, 10 of us used a selway river bank on a selway years ago, it was full full at the end of the trip so, 10 people for 5 days....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,899 Posts
We just got off Lodore. Four nights/mornings of groover use and 8 adults, 3 males and 5 females.

The Eco-safe tank was 3/5 full(I just did the dump and my hands just dried from washing). At 4/5 fulls I'd declare it functionally full enough which equals at most one more day. That would be 40 deposits. But I have the luxury of owning 3 Eco-Safe vaults and my closest boating buddies also have multiple vaults.

The box is rated 50. I'd say at 50 units low hangers would prefer not to use it and moving it would be considered a two person job. If you tried to carry it yourself you'd end up being a low hanger in a different way(hernia).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
I have a great book called 'River Otter' by Maria Eschen. It's full of formulas for river planning.

For my Eco-Safe river toilet:
calculate volume @ men x2 per day, women or kids x1.5 per day total capacity 50 uses. (bring 2 rolls TP per vault)

So for my upcoming trip, 3 couples for 3 days
(3 men x2) + (3 women x1.5) X 3 days = 31.5 uses

As others mentioned, 50 uses is very full and very heavy. I like to have some spare capacity.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
909 Posts
Wow, you fit that into an ecosafe ?? I think it's closer to 40 user days tops. Not to start a war, but women tend to use about 2 to 3 times the TP as men do, as my wife reminds me, they have a lot more to wipe.. I guess, but...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,899 Posts
Based on almost 40 years of experience with eco-safes, kengore's and my contribution of knowledge on this thread is bonafide.

I must seek a copy of "River Otter". I love qualified(bonafide) facts.

However, I'd strongly consider going forward with hindsight the choose of an eco-safe or Marshall's obviously preferred choice, a Selway product.

The strongest factor of difference is that a metal rocket box weights 20 pounds empty. I hate weight. And, the Selway product is more stable dimension-ally when sitting upon.

Do MB'ers have alternate storage suggestions for one or multiple on boat eco-box dimensions? (Or is secondary storage even necessary?) I'd love to be able to "slot" many eco-safes into a box in the boat. Let's just say I've designed several such boat aluminum boxes while working at Down River Equipment but does there exist alternate existing options.

Also, I have many sound suggestions for optimizing eco-safes I'm willing to share to make eco-safes perhaps the preferred choice whether in or out of a 20lb rocket box.

In other words, rocket boxes suck and perhaps a Selway is the preferred choice from the get go for perhaps a Grand trip requiring multiple eco-safes. Or not. I'd love to have an aluminum box capable of precisely fitting three or four rocket boxes for a Grand trip. I've got ways to make that Eco-safe plastic box stable and portable during use and into a boat vault.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,899 Posts
Wow, you fit that into an ecosafe ?? I think it's closer to 40 user days tops. Not to start a war, but women tend to use about 2 to 3 times the TP as men do, as my wife reminds me, they have a lot more to wipe.. I guess, but...
Yo dude, TP generates 1/2 to 1/3 third the volume of matter that males do. TP reduces to next to less than considerable when stirred into place and bio-digested. I will admit that many times I've thought to put TP in a separate receptacle which might be considered. But never have gone beyond a separate bag for personal wipe and napkins.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
Planning is one thing, actual groover use depends on so many other factors. How hot or cold will effect how hungry people are. Those bomber burritos might change the math, etc. Perhaps someone gets sick. Based on the worst horror stories I here around the campfire one of the the worst things to run out of is groover space. I would bring 1.5x what you think you need.

The Eco-safe is less stable than I would like, I might try to build some kind of base. It is common enough I can usually borrow or rent a spare vault if I need to. My frame has a bay that fits 3 rocket boxes side by side perfectly. So the Eco product made sense. I do wish the rocket boxes were lighter, but they are robust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,980 Posts
Does anyone have good numbers?

About how many user days is a Selway Riverbank Toilet good for on a multi-day trip?
How about an Eco-safe Rocket-box style system?

Thanks!
Lots of recommendations on how much you should put in them..........but for ranger check in at the put in..............Eco safe = 50 day uses..........Selway riverbank = 60 day uses............Jonny partner = 65 day uses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,579 Posts
Beware the courtesy cover for it shall lower thy numbers dramatically...

Quality of the Toilet Paper makes a big difference too. The thick fancy stuff will fill a groover quick. I don't like to go total bargain basement, but a medium grade double ply seems to fit the bill and get the job done. You just have to discourage the "mummy hands" from doing their usual 3-4 wraps.

I was pretty amazed....my 23 day 16 person grand trip in 2017 only used 5 vaults. They were the Ceiba ones where you basically straight into a rocket box....but I was still impressed. I think we brought 8 on the trip. It was a group with plenty of dudes and heavy eaters too.

Its a nice luxury to bring an extra and not have to fill each one to the top. I've definitely been on plenty of trips where you had to do the jiggle and shake and eventually had to get a stick out and smush the contents to the sides of the box but that was as far as we've ever gone.

I talked to a guy who was on a trip that maximized the use of an ecosafe and he said it was hell trying to clean that thing out afterwards. Literally packed to the brim.

In an emergency....some water to break down the TP a bit helps.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
909 Posts
We rented from Ceiba as well on our last Grand trip, so nice not to have to deal with the cleaning.. They use the same system I have for years, it's very hard to beat, and our results were the same as yours, 5 boxes over 23 days. The biggest thing for me about the ecosafe wasn't the extra work needed every day to clean and sanitize, but the way it's designed, when a man sits down, and if he has a, well generous scrotum, it hangs down and sits on the plastic of the seat, where all the women tend to "dribble".. Just nasty.. Not to mention that few people have good enough "aim" to ace hitting the hole properly and it leaves a mess, that nobody seems able to clean when they are done..

Finally bit the bullet and bought the Johnny Partner and a spare tank.. Good point about the quality of the TP, I've found Northern brand is a good comprimise between strength and softness, and the stuff the NPS uses that one can read a newspaper through.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
669 Posts
9 people, 6 days 5 nights on Deso, 2 Riverbanks, room to spare; agree with 60ish uses
Folks use TP as needed, but no "catcher's mitt" wads; keep everything else (pee, wipes, etc.) out of the groover
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,899 Posts
As mentioned, adding a little water helps dissolve the TP and eliminates "air" pockets.

To get to the OEM rated number of units it is generally necessary to do poo maintenance such as adding water and tamping the TP. Many groover locations in the wilds have a pre-used stick conveniently left nearby. Inspect first to make sure you grab the unused end. Stirring is usually not necesssary. Just pushing down the tp to wet it and add a quart or two(or more of water).

Yes, a full and "dry" groover is very difficult to clean. I suggest to always add water and letting it sit before doing a dump. Examine and add more water if space available. Adding water at the take-out allows time for the water and the agitation of the driving to slurry the content. The objective is to make a slurry because if you clog the dump hose you end up with a situation that you do not want to deal with.

Oh, I also suggest that you make sure that your screws are tight on your hose clamps(yes, I suggest using two hose clamps). I was present at a situation where the hose detached and disappeared down the hole and units of matter started distributing all over the place.. Another situation you prefer not to deal with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
Water in the bottom to prime is great, saves on space and makes cleaning easier.

Also, when space is a concern and/or there are women on the trip, simply have a TP bucket next to groover for TP and feminine products. Saves a ton of groover space and makes sure tampons don't go into the groover.

Same goes for pee. A pee bucket next to groover saves on volume and gives women a more private place to pee, and helps with groover smell.

Rocket boxes are rated for 50 poops at 5 gallons. The selways hold a bit more volume, 7 gallons total.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
I have used both the Eco Tank and the Selway, and much prefer the Selway. No need to carry a seat, or to scrub the nasties off said seat when someone has poor aim or seismic movements. We did a Deso with 15 people (6 adult males, 3 adult females, 6 kids. 6 nights 7 days). Got through the trip with one Selway toilet. It was pretty close to full by the end, and we had an Eco safe as backup.
We have a dedicated "pee bucket" next to the groover, nice for all genders. We also have an old coffee can for burning TP. It has a bunch of holes punched through the sides about a half inch up for air flow. We tell people to let the first wipe go in the groover, but subsequent passes go into the can and get burnt. This lets mummy hands and 10 swipe people feel like they're not crimping their style without filling the groover with paper. Ashes go in the groover when packing up, along with a sprinkle of bleach crystals.
Another tip: When the groover is "done" (usually before it is frighteningly full), I will take the used hand wash water and pour it in. Keeps everything from turning into a brick of turds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,392 Posts
Lots of recommendations on how much you should put in them..........but for ranger check in at the put in..............Eco safe = 50 day uses..........Selway riverbank = 60 day uses............Jonny partner = 65 day uses.
I agree with these numbers.
Coyote is in the 55-60 user-day range.
Jonny seems bigger, but you really can't get more than 65-70 out of them.
Selway holds a surprisingly large amount for the space it takes up. They're reasonably tall in use, yet narrow enough to fit between a lot of different frame rails.

We had an Eco-safe make it through a 7-person, 9-day MF Salmon (roughly 56 user-days). Granted, we all grooved before leaving Boundary, and dropped one day at Indian Creek...and 4 of the crew were kayakers so they drank more than they ate. It was FULL at the end and we had a backup 20mm rocket box, but we did fit it entirely in the EcoSafe.

MaverickUSC said:
Water in the bottom to prime is great, saves on space and makes cleaning easier.

Same goes for pee. A pee bucket next to groover saves on volume and gives women a more private place to pee, and helps with groover smell.
Can use water as a primer, but Pinesol or Simple Green are a better primer because they also help to keep smell down/mask smell. Found out that Blackadar uses Pinesol when I opened the Jonny Partner I'd rented and was ready to chew someone in my group out for peeing in the groover..then smelled pine and didn't see TP! That said, maybe use Simple Green so nobody looks in, sees yellow, and assumes it's OK to pee in the groover.

Pee bucket makes a MASSIVE difference in keeping pee out of the groover--which helps both stink and volume. It also alleviates the danger of someone trying to pee at the river while dark and after a couple cocktails. After doing groover duty for Middle/Main trips this summer, I was surprised how much people use the pee bucket if you provide one--like 1.5gal/camp.

We also have an old coffee can for burning TP. It has a bunch of holes punched through the sides about a half inch up for air flow. We tell people to let the first wipe go in the groover, but subsequent passes go into the can and get burnt. This lets mummy hands and 10 swipe people feel like they're not crimping their style without filling the groover with paper. Ashes go in the groover when packing up, along with a sprinkle of bleach crystals.
Another tip: When the groover is "done" (usually before it is frighteningly full), I will take the used hand wash water and pour it in. Keeps everything from turning into a brick of turds.
Cool idea on the TP can. I'd heard of people burning TP in the fire, but let's face it, nobody wants to handle it.

I like the ashes in the groover idea. If you have a Pop-up pit, you have a pretty small volume of ash to deal with, and ashes also dessicate the poo..they definitely don't hurt anything and wouldn't tend to increase volume used.

Yeah, as a groover cleaner, I completely agree to add some hand wash water after your final use and before you transport it. Makes a massive difference in cleanability. If you don't have that water and some slosh, the turds will settle on the river and/or the drive home and consolidate badly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Bought a Coyote for a Main Salmon 4 families of 4. Small kids to adults, some first time (shy groovers) I would agree with the above statement of 55-60, I was impressed with how much it seemed to hold. We could have made it with one, but broke out the second groove 2nd to last day. I like the system and glad I went with it vs the eco.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top